Upstream Jewish (And Other Eurasian) YDNA Haplogroup Q Now Confirmed As Indo-European (Scythian)

[Anglojew]

The latest research finally completes the missing piece of the previously paradoxical and conflicting information related to the Jewish YDNA Haplogroup Q "jigsaw puzzle".

The two obvious paradoxes where;

1. Why is Q associated with Part-Mongoloid Turkic groups (such as Bulgars and Khazars) when it is genetically the "sister-group" of Caucasoid YDNA haplogroup R and a fellow "daughter" of Caucasoid P;



2. And why is it associated with non-Caucasoid populations, when both prehistorical Central-Asians AND Siberians, were Caucasoids with;

Classical Greek and Chinese historic records cite the Scythians and Sarmatians, Indo-European-speaking people described as having European morphological traits, as the first inhabitants occupying the region.

Modern genetic analysis confirms that ancient Central-Asians were Caucasoids and only admixed with Mongoloids post Bronze-Age.

http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v...160a.html#bib2

In Siberia Caucasoid populations seem to have merged with Mongoloid populations earlier (perhaps when both were in their "Proto" Stages)?

Scientists have mapped the genome of a four-year-old boy who died in south-central Siberia 24,000 years ago.

It is the oldest modern human genome sequenced to date, researchers report in the journal Nature.

The results provide a window into the origins of Native Americans, whose ancestors crossed from Siberia into the New World during the last Ice Age.

They suggest about a third of Native American ancestry came from an ancient population related to Europeans.

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-25020958

Indeed;

The distribution of east and west Eurasian lineages through time in the region is concordant with the available archaeological information: prior to the thirteenth-seventh century BC, all Kazakh samples belong to European lineages

http://dienekes.blogspot.com.au/2004...al-asians.html


Now, for the first time, we can confirm that the origin of Jewish YDNA Haplogroup Q (Q-M378) IS -as one should expect- both Caucasoid and;

...connected with migrations of ancestral populations of the Indo-European language family.

https://www.academia.edu/5642170/Phy...ome_Sequencing

Ashkenazi YDNA Haplogroup Q (and others please see illustration below) are in fact of Indo-European origin;

Q-M378 subclade, which is downstream of Q-L275 haplogroup, is marked by a wide area of its distribution and a minor share of presence in modern populations of Eurasia. Phylogenetic structure of the subclade, known so far, did not allow for matching SNP Y-chromosomes to specific populations and to reconstruct possible direc-tions of their migrations in retrospect. The conducted research enabled us to form a consistent phylogenetic structure of Q-M378 subclade, validated by analysis of SNP and STR-markers, based on the data of full Y-chromosome sequencing using next generation sequencers. As part of the research, new phylogenetic levels of Q-Y2250 (downstream of Q-M378 and including Q-L301), Q-Y2220 (downstream of Q-L245), Q-Y2200 (downstream of Q-Y2220) were defined. SNPs, which, in the future, may possibly mark certain European and Asian subclusters of Q-Y2220 (including the Armenian subcluster), as well as separate branches of the Jewish cluster Q-Y2200, were defined as well. The research also confirmed connection of Q-M378 subclade distribution with migration of Indo-European language carriers from Central Asia via Afghanistan and Iran to the West.

Of course, the ancestral population which best fits this pattern of migration are the Scythians -and the related peoples (possibly part-Turkic) Sarmatians- which would explain the later Turkic association with the Haplogroup as they appear to have intermarried with Mongoloid women;

Ancient DNA of 13 Sarmatian remains from Pokrovka kurgan burials in the southern Ural steppes along the Kazakhstan and Russian border was extracted for comparative analysis. Most of the mitochondrial haplogroups determined were of western Eurasian origin, while only a few were of "central/east Asian Haplotype which is found among the Turkic speaking nomadic people. This Haplotype is almost (one base pair missing) identical with the Haplotype of the (Kazakh) women from western Mongolia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarmatians




We can see the upstream Indo-European origin of Ashkenazi YDNA Q (Q-M378) here;




The PDF is available here. Link; https://www.academia.edu/5642170/Phy...ome_Sequencing

Please see my other related posts;

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...ed-The-Khazars

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...t-Gothic-Tribe

[Prisoner Of Ice]

Turks are absolutely originally caucasoids. They have mixed to become like they are now, but some few do have 80+% caucasoid genes. Many are 70/30 split with mongoloids, which is how ozman turks likely were by the time they conquered anatolia.

[Amud]

It is thought by many that the Khazars were partly of Scythian stock (http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/news/g...european-jews/). In fact, I have seen a hypothesis that the ruling class of Khazars was of Scythian origin. So, haplogroup Q being derived from the Scythians does not necessarily mean that the Jews didn't pick it up from the Khazars.

[Anglojew]

It is thought by many that the Khazars were partly of Scythian stock (http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/news/g...european-jews/). In fact, I have seen a hypothesis that the ruling class of Khazars was of Scythian origin. So, haplogroup Q being derived from the Scythians does not necessarily mean that the Jews didn't pick it up from the Khazars.

True. There may have been a later integration but it does look like my ancestry was ultimately Scythian and it IS associated with the Khazar Royal Family (which now looks to be of IE Scythian origin).

As Coon said (posted by Don Coyote);

Although the general manner of living enjoyed by the Scythians does resemble in a remarkable degree that of the later Huns, Turks, and Mongols, one looks in vain for some of the cultural traits of these later Altaic speakers which may be ascribed to a relatively recent Siberian origin. These include the yurt or collapsible felt-domed house, and the Turko-Mongol type of shamanism. The Turks and the Mongols, without question, took over almost completely the whole Scythian style of culture, but they added to it elements of their own which reflected their former habitat and manner of life.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...ht=coon+scyths

[Anglojew]

Historical and Religious "Smoking Gun" Evidence;

According to Jeremiah 51:27, a kingdom of Ashkenaz was called together with Ararat and Minni against Babylon. The location of this kingdom, however, is not clear and is not mentioned again, nor is there any clear non-biblical reference to the kingdom. Ashkenaz is often identified with the Scythians and Sarmatians, due in part to the use of the name "Ashkuz" (Saka) for the Scythians in Assyrian Akkadian inscriptions.

According to the Encyclopaedia Biblica, "Ashkenaz must have been one of the migratory peoples which in the time of Esar-haddon, burst upon the northern provinces of Asia Minor, and upon Armenia. One branch of this great migration appears to have reached Lake Urumiyeh; for in the revolt which Esar-haddon chastised (i R 45, col. 2, 27 jf.), the Mannai, who lived to the SW of that lake, sought the help of Ispakai 'of the land of Asguza,' a name (originally perhaps Asgunza) which the scepticism of Dillmann need not hinder us from identifying with Ashkenaz, and from considering as that of a horde from the north, of Indo-Germanic origin, which settled on the south of Lake Urumiyeh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenaz

[Anglojew]

Compare the map of Haplogroup Q in Europe;



With the borders of Scythia;




Interesting overlap.

[Artek]

Compare the map of Haplogroup Q in Europe;



With the borders of Scythia;




Interesting overlap.

I must disappoint you:


Scythians were overwhelmingly R1a-Z93 anyway, probably with some G,J, Q and other haplogroups in smaller amounts.

[Äijä]

Kabars fled to the surrounding tribes, maybe even to Fennoscandia?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabars

[Anglojew]

I must disappoint you:


Scythians were overwhelmingly R1a-Z93 anyway, probably with some G,J, Q and other haplogroups in smaller amounts.

Yes, but this is the Scythians, who became Khazar royalty, not the people at large.

[Anglojew]

Kabars fled to the surrounding tribes, maybe even to Fennoscandia?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabars

I didn't know that. Thanks.