Is Northern Germany originally dutch or german?

[Longbowman]

As you can see, measured on the two main haplogroups R1a and R1b, North Germans are closer to South Germans.

But only marginally so. This is effected by their Slavic-type blood (R1a). Their total R is not dissimilar from the Netherlands or South Germany. Overall they are closer to the Netherlands.

[Chichic]

But only marginally so. This is effected by their Slavic-type blood (R1a). Their total R is not dissimilar from the Netherlands or South Germany. Overall they are closer to the Netherlands.

That may be true for some individuals in the extreme north west, but clearly not for the predominant part of the North Germans.

[Geminus]

You're empirically wrong. Especially about the genetic relationship.

YDNA:

Netherlands:
I1 16.5%
I2a 1%
I2b 6.5%
R1a 4%
R1b 49%
G 4.5%
J2 3.5%
J1 0.5%
EV13 3.5%
T 1%
Q 0%
N 0%

North Germany:
I1 18.5% closer to NETHERLANDS
I2a 0.5% closer to NETHERLANDS
I2b 7.5% closer to NETHERLANDS
R1a 22% closer to SOUTHERN GERMANY
R1b 36% closer to SOUTHERN GERMANY
G 3.5% closer to NETHERLANDS
J2 4% closer to NETHERLANDS
J1 0.5% closer to NETHERLANDS
EV13 2.5% closer to NETHERLANDS
T 1% closer to NETHERLANDS
Q 2% closer to SOUTH GERMANY
N 1.5% closer to SOUTH GERMANY

South Germany:
I1 10.5%
I2a 4.5%
I2b 3%
R1a 9.5%
R1b 48.5%
G 8%
J2 5.5%
J1 1%
EV13 8%
T 1.5%
Q 0.5%
N 0.5%

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/europe...logroups.shtml

aDNA is closer too.

As you can see, measured on the two main haplogroups R1a and R1b, North Germans are closer to South Germans.

As far as I know this figures are somewhat outdated.
Anyway, if you try to calculate the distance between the groups, and use for example the Euclidean distance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclidean_distance) you get this somewhat surprising results:

Distance between Netherlands and North-Germany: 22,5
Distance between North-Germany and South-Germany: 21,6
Distance between Netherlands and South-Germany: 11,3 (!)

So the distance from Netherlands to North-Germany and North-Germany to South-Germany is almost equal, but the Distance from Netherlands to South-Germany is really low
Because of this I would guess the figures are somewhat distant to reality, or this similarity has other causes.

[Chichic]

LOL man. Low german is not dialect of high german, it's different and distinct language. It's closer to dutch than to bavarian or austrian languages/dialects.

High german speakers in that area are just immigrants. At least most of them.

You're a clueless fool. Low German is only a dialect of the German and not a different language. You are from Russia, how do you even want to know that?

[Chichic]

As far as I know this figures are somewhat outdated.
Anyway, if you try to calculate the distance between the groups, and use for example the Euclidean distance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclidean_distance) you get this somewhat surprising results:

Distance between Netherlands and North-Germany: 22,5
Distance between North-Germany and South-Germany: 21,6
Distance between Netherlands and South-Germany: 11,3 (!)

So the distance from Netherlands to North-Germany and North-Germany to South-Germany is almost equal, but the Distance from Netherlands to South-Germany is really low
Because of this I would guess the figures are somewhat distant to reality, or this similarity has other causes.

Nonsense. I speak from my own experience, since I live in Germany. You can not generalize all North Germans, that's impossible because North Germany is 50 times as big as the Netherlands. I thought you're German, why do I need to tell you something? Every German should know this.

[Visitor_22]

You're a clueless fool. Low German is only a dialect of the German and not a different language. You are from Russia, how do you even want to know that?

Low german is not dialect of high german and never was. It's distinct independent language.

[Geminus]

Nonsense. I speak from my own experience, since I live in Germany. You can not generalize all North Germans, that's impossible because North Germany is 50 times as big as the Netherlands. I thought you're German, why do I need to tell you something? Every German should know this.

Yeah, of course...
Obviously there are many differences for example between people from Lower Saxony and people from Pomerania.
But between the Netherlands and it's border regions in Germany there is a dialect-continuum, just as there is a continuum between Bavaria and Austria or Baden Württemberg and Switzerland.

[Geminus]

LOL man. Low german is not dialect of high german, it's different and distinct language. It's closer to dutch than to bavarian or austrian languages/dialects.

High german speakers in that area are just immigrants. At least most of them.

That isn't right, High German just used to become the dominant language in this areas over time.
This matter is somewhat more complicated than you think, and your general opinion that Low Germans are Dutch and not Germans is oversimplifying these issues.

[Chichic]

Yeah, of course...
Obviously there are many differences for example between people from Lower Saxony and people from Pomerania.
But between the Netherlands and it's border regions in Germany there is a dialect-continuum, just as there is a continuum between Bavaria and Austria or Baden Württemberg and Switzerland.

Yes, I have said that too. That's pretty normal at every border region of every country.

People from the East Netherlands are also more like Germans than for example people from West Netherlands.

[Hevo]

Yes, I have said that too. That's pretty normal at every border region of every country.

People from the East Netherlands are also more like Germans than for example people from West Netherlands.

Yeah, some samples from the North/Western Netherlands show that they are genetically closer to the South Eastern English and/or Danes than to Germans.