Real IRA is ready for 'long war'

[Oisín]

Pride is an important emotion. Protestants would quickly seek to separate were Ireland one unified state. Who would deny them that right?

Why is it that Irish Protestants who make up a minority of the Irish population should have the right to keep our nation divided? The last time a vote was taken on an all Ireland basis the Irish people voted overwhelmingly in favour of a unified Irish Republic, the British ignored this and imposed partition under the threat of 'immediate and terrible war'. It is the right of the Irish people as a whole to decide our future.

[chap]

I would think it is time for the British Isles to get over petty things such as this. I am surprised the IRA still gives a shit about Catholicism Vs. Protestantism. The fact of the matter is, Ireland belongs to the Irish the same as England belongs to the English. Those who settled there and are protestant ought to be assimilated into Irish culture, irrespective of religion or descent, since the Irish are of largely the same culture and stock of those who colonized them.

As a result of conquest and settlement, the island of Britain is shared by three nations. Four if you include the Cornish.

Realistically, the same is now going to be true for the island of Ireland. The Ulster Protestants, different by tradition, and somewhat of blood also, will not tolerate living in a united Irish state.

Who knows, maybe the Protestants are irrational. Maybe the streets will be paved with gold in a united Ireland. But that's their business and not mine. A united Ireland could only be maintained through force of arms - which would alienate the Protestant population still further.

[chap]

Why is it that Irish Protestants who make up a minority of the Irish population should have the right to keep our nation divided? The last time a vote was taken on an all Ireland basis the Irish people voted overwhelmingly in favour of a unified Irish Republic, the British ignored this and imposed partition under the threat of 'immediate and terrible war'. It is the right of the Irish people as a whole to decide our future.

Why should the Irish Catholics deny the Irish Protestants the right to self determination?

If Protestant villages, towns, districts, decide to secede from a united Ireland, that is their right.

[Oisín]

Even with the possibility of some sort of greater proportionate representation, few, if any, Protestants would support a united Ireland. No matter how one tries to spin it, that British connection is a fundamental element of Ulster Protestant identity. Imposing a nationality on one group, while simultaneously liberating another in the same state, is contradictory on the most basic of levels. Unification will only result in another tidal wave of violence, as it will be loyalists taking up arms in a fight closely paralleling the nationalist struggle in previous decades.

The way the situation is laid out now a united Ireland will become a reality when the majority wish it so no-one is suggesting imposing a nationality or identity on anyone. If one day the people of the 6 counties vote for unification loyalists will have no right whatsoever to launch a campaign of violence as unification will have happened democratically under the guidelines of the GFA which their own community voted for!
As for a tidal wave of violence, please. From the UVF, UDA & UFF? Even when they were being spoon fed information by the British army and RUC they still couldn't manage much more than abducting innocent Catholics in taxis and then murdering them. The British army report examining the Troubles described the loyalist 'paramilitaries' as "little more than a collection of gangsters". Now that they have called ceasefires and stopped shooting innocent Catholics they're too busy wiping each other out in drug turf wars to be considered any real security threat.

[Soldier of Wodann]

As a result of conquest and settlement, the island of Britain is shared by three nations. Four if you include the Cornish.

Realistically, the same is now going to be true for the island of Ireland. The Ulster Protestants, different by tradition, and somewhat of blood also, will not tolerate living in a united Irish state.

Who knows, maybe the Protestants are irrational. Maybe the streets will be paved with gold in a united Ireland. But that's their business and not mine. A united Ireland could only be maintained through force of arms - which would alienate the Protestant population still further.

I am curious as to how many actually still care about such frivolous things, especially when the British are far, far more secularized than the Irish.

Despite being TOTALLY different at the time, the British came together under English control. I am confused as to why so many British find it unthinkable that the same would happen to Ireland under (what a shock) Irish leadership.

Reminds me of the Balkans, not suitable for Northern Europeans at all.

Tsk tsk.

[Oisín]

Why should the Irish Catholics deny the Irish Protestants the right to self determination?

If Protestant villages, towns, districts, decide to secede from a united Ireland, that is their right.

By your logic areas of England that are majority black and Muslim should have the right to secede and form their own micro-nations.

[Loyalist]

The last time a vote was taken on an all Ireland basis the Irish people voted overwhelmingly in favour of a unified Irish Republic, the British ignored this and imposed partition under the threat of 'immediate and terrible war'.

Of course an all-Ireland referendum would support unification; Protestants and/or Unionists are a clear minority when examining the population of the island as a whole.

It is the right of the Irish people as a whole to decide our future.

Ulster Protestants also have a right to decide their future, and their position has been made quite clear. When speaking of the "Irish people", first head to Northern Ireland, and ask how many Protestants feel they are included in that category.

[Oisín]

A united Ireland could only be maintained through force of arms - which would alienate the Protestant population still further.

No-one is talking about forcing a united Ireland onto anyone.

[Oisín]

Of course an all-Ireland referendum would support unification; Protestants and/or Unionists are a clear minority when examining the population of the island as a whole.

Would you apply the same logic to England? Presuming one day a Nationalist party has a majority in parliament, should the minorities be allowed to break away and form their own micro-nations where they are the majority so they can carry on doing as they please? What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Ulster Protestants also have a right to decide their future, and their position has been made quite clear. When speaking of the "Irish people", first head to Northern Ireland, and ask how many Protestants feel they are included in that category.

How many times do I have to say it? I am not talking about forcing Protestants into a united Ireland against their will. The idea is that they reclaim their Irish Republican roots and vote for a united Ireland themselves.

[Loyalist]

Would you apply the same logic to England? Presuming one day a Nationalist party has a majority in parliament, should the minorities be allowed to break away and form their own micro-nations where they are the majority so they can carry on doing as they please? What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Any regional conflict within England cannot fairly be contrasted to Ireland, particularly when speaking hypothetically.

How many times do I have to say it? I am not talking about forcing Protestants into a united Ireland against their will. The idea is that they reclaim their Irish Republican roots and vote for a united Ireland themselves.

How many times do I have to say it? It's called reality; that's never going to happen. Lay out the perks of unification on the table all you want, Protestants aren't simply going to abandon the Unionist tradition and become born-again Republicans. That might have worked centuries ago when the entire island was under the domination of Britain and an Anglican elite, allowing some common Catholic/Dissenter identity to emerge, but that is in no way applicable to today. The people who you're referring to as historical Irish Republicans are, today, the most firebrand Unionists (Presbyterians and Methodists have long since displaced Anglo-Irish Anglicans in that role). Now let me ask you; assume Protestants continue to overwhelmingly reject a united Ireland, meaning it is against their will, what happens then?