Irish in Great Britain

[Smaug]

plastic paddies

Plastic murican.

[Germanic King]

Plastic murican.

No such thing lol

[Graham]

People from Connaught went to Scotland too? I thought the immigration from Ireland to Scotland was exclusively from Ulster.

Roger Swift and Sheridan Gilley described three primary emigration routes in their book The Irish in the Victorian City:

"1. The Northern Route, from Ulster and North Connacht to Scotland; 2. The midland route, from Connacht and most of Leinster via Dublin to the North of England and the midlands; and 3. The southern route, from South Leinster and the Munster Counties to London, often via Bristol." (Swift, Roger and Gilley, Sheridan, 1985, p. 15).

One third of the Irish born living in Britain in 1871 were in Glasgow (Scotland), Liverpool (Lancashire), Manchester (Lancashire) and London. (MacRaild, Donald, 1999, p. 66).
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ir...n_england.html


The impact of the Irish famine

According to the census of population, the Irish-born population of Scotland stood at 126,321 out of a total of 2,620,184 in 1841, or 4.8%. Ten years later it stood at 207,367, or 7.2%, out of a total of 2,888,742. This compared to 2.9% for England and Wales. During 1848, the average weekly inflow of Irish into Glasgow was estimated at over 1000, and the figure for January to April of that year was put at 42,860.

Between 1841 and 1851 the Irish population of Scotland increased by 90%. As the century progressed the numbers of Irish immigrants dwindled to 3.7% in 1911, or 174,715; the respective figures for England and Wales were 1%, or 395,325. The census figures, however, underestimate the total strength of the Irish community in Scotland as they record only those people who were Irish-born; children of Irish immigrants born in Scotland were classified as Scottish.

Settlement of the Irish

Because of their poverty and poor state of health, Irish immigrants tended to settle in or around their point of disembarkation, which meant the west coast of Scotland. The nearest counties to Ireland, Wigtownshire and Kirkcudbrightshire, had substantial Irish populations by 1841. The famine pushed the numbers up to 16.5% of the population in the former.

Dumfries-shire saw its Irish-born population stand at 5.9% in 1851. The Irish also made their way to the east coast, particularly to Dundee, where a large female Irish community was established. Edinburgh had only a small Irish community of 6.5% of total population in 1851. However, it was the industrial areas of the west of Scotland which saw the largest concentrations of Irish immigrants, with almost 29% of all Irish migrants settled in Glasgow, but the smaller industrial towns of the west also had substantial Irish communities. The population of Coatbridge in 1851 was 35.8% Irish.

Irish protestant emigration

As Catholic Irish immigrants declined in number in the late 1870s and 1880s, the Protestant Irish took up the slack. Most of these new immigrants came from the most Orange counties of the north, such as Armagh. There had been historic links of an economic and religious kind between the west of Scotland and Ulster.

Even the Church of Scotland recognised that in their 1923 attack on the Catholic Irish ‘[no complaint can be made about] the presence of an Orange population in Scotland. They are of the same race as ourselves and of the same Faith, and are readily assimilated to the Scottish race’. Thus, the Protestant Irish faced nothing like the level of discrimination endured by the Catholic Irish.

http://www.educationscotland.gov.uk/...ants/irish.asp

[Smaug]

Roger Swift and Sheridan Gilley described three primary emigration routes in their book The Irish in the Victorian City:

"1. The Northern Route, from Ulster and North Connacht to Scotland; 2. The midland route, from Connacht and most of Leinster via Dublin to the North of England and the midlands; and 3. The southern route, from South Leinster and the Munster Counties to London, often via Bristol." (Swift, Roger and Gilley, Sheridan, 1985, p. 15).

One third of the Irish born living in Britain in 1871 were in Glasgow (Scotland), Liverpool (Lancashire), Manchester (Lancashire) and London. (MacRaild, Donald, 1999, p. 66).
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ir...n_england.html

That's really good, thank you for sharing Gra!

The impact of the Irish famine

According to the census of population, the Irish-born population of Scotland stood at 126,321 out of a total of 2,620,184 in 1841, or 4.8%. Ten years later it stood at 207,367, or 7.2%, out of a total of 2,888,742. This compared to 2.9% for England and Wales. During 1848, the average weekly inflow of Irish into Glasgow was estimated at over 1000, and the figure for January to April of that year was put at 42,860.

Between 1841 and 1851 the Irish population of Scotland increased by 90%. As the century progressed the numbers of Irish immigrants dwindled to 3.7% in 1911, or 174,715; the respective figures for England and Wales were 1%, or 395,325. The census figures, however, underestimate the total strength of the Irish community in Scotland as they record only those people who were Irish-born; children of Irish immigrants born in Scotland were classified as Scottish.

Settlement of the Irish

Because of their poverty and poor state of health, Irish immigrants tended to settle in or around their point of disembarkation, which meant the west coast of Scotland. The nearest counties to Ireland, Wigtownshire and Kirkcudbrightshire, had substantial Irish populations by 1841. The famine pushed the numbers up to 16.5% of the population in the former.

Dumfries-shire saw its Irish-born population stand at 5.9% in 1851. The Irish also made their way to the east coast, particularly to Dundee, where a large female Irish community was established. Edinburgh had only a small Irish community of 6.5% of total population in 1851. However, it was the industrial areas of the west of Scotland which saw the largest concentrations of Irish immigrants, with almost 29% of all Irish migrants settled in Glasgow, but the smaller industrial towns of the west also had substantial Irish communities. The population of Coatbridge in 1851 was 35.8% Irish.

Irish protestant emigration

As Catholic Irish immigrants declined in number in the late 1870s and 1880s, the Protestant Irish took up the slack. Most of these new immigrants came from the most Orange counties of the north, such as Armagh. There had been historic links of an economic and religious kind between the west of Scotland and Ulster.

Even the Church of Scotland recognised that in their 1923 attack on the Catholic Irish ‘[no complaint can be made about] the presence of an Orange population in Scotland. They are of the same race as ourselves and of the same Faith, and are readily assimilated to the Scottish race’. Thus, the Protestant Irish faced nothing like the level of discrimination endured by the Catholic Irish.

http://www.educationscotland.gov.uk/...ants/irish.asp

[Catkin]

^^ So interesting Graham, and thanks for the link. It's helping me work out my family history.

My great-grandfather met my great-grandmother when he moved to Scotland from County Dublin in the 1910s looking for work, but her family had lived there longer. She was actually born in Ireland, but it seems her family had just moved back there temporarily as her older and younger siblings were born in Ayrshire.

Her mother, Lizzie, was born in Stevenston, Ayrshire in 1867. I haven't found Lizzie's maiden name yet, but I'm guessing she was Irish because it seems there was quite a long-term Irish community there (it's where my grandad was born later) and I guess it would make sense that the Irish Catholics would have married each other, but I can't be sure yet.

Lizzie's husband, my g-g-grandfather, was born in Ireland in 1865, suggesting he didn't move to Scotland until after the main famine emigration flow. Then I found this from Graham's first link:

According to Donald MacRaild in his book "Irish Migrants in Modern Britain," "the poorest province, Connacht maintained disproportionately low emigration rates until after the famine." ... He sited Mayo and Galway as having the greatest population decline in the 1880's.

My g-g-grandfather's surname was Forde, which had it's highest frequency in the mid-1800s in County Mayo and Galway. The fact he moved over later and has this surname has raised the possibility he may have been from Connacht, so I'll have to look into this.

In about 1922 or 1923 my great-grandfather and great-grandmother moved back to County Wicklow in Ireland with my grandad who was a couple of years old. Later, my grandad and his dad moved to Liverpool looking for work, and then on to London, where after WW2 my grandad met and married a nice English lady who worked at the same barrel-making factory as him, and they had 3 sons and my mum .

[Catkin]

Tracing my dad's family tree a bit further back, I've found he's got ancestors from Ireland too. They were from Cork and came over to London in the first half of the 1800s: the 'Southern route' in Graham's post above. I found out some more information about these immigrants:

For the very poorest, Britain became the final destination; those who could not afford even the lower fares across the Atlantic paid the few pence for deck passage across the Irish Sea. Conditions on such crossings were appalling. Deck passengers had a lower priority than baggage or livestock, and up to 2000 people could be crowded onto an open deck in all weather, clinging to each other to avoid being washed overboard.

In 1830-35, 200,000 Irish people made such crossings, and by 1841 over 400,000 lived permanently in Britain, mostly in the largest cities, Glasgow, London, Manchester, and Liverpool itself.

http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/m...on/pre-fam.htm

London
The largest number of Irish immigrants came to London with its great variety of trades and perceived opportunities. The number of Irish street traders, selling nuts and oranges (which kept well and could be obtained in small quantities), had been noticeable in London since the 1820s. These ‘street Irish’, with their ‘networks of place or origin, family, work and church’, are described by Henry Mayhew in his London Labour and the London Poor (1851-62). Many were from county Cork and other parts of the province of Munster and were Gaelic speaking, the women often with little or no English. They walked from south Wales or Bristol relying on charity and the casual wards of local workhouses along the way. About a hundred thousand had arrived in London by 1851.

In London their first port of call was often a cheap lodging house or the Asylum for the Houseless Poor near the docks in Whitechapel where high concentrations of Irish developed, often in appalling conditions. Others settled around Drury Lane, convenient for work in Covent Garden, at Saffron Hill and in Southwark. The second generation remained in these areas but mobility within them was high. Some continued to do seasonal harvest work walking in and out of London.

Without references the men could only do casual work, labouring, rubbish-carting, costering and crossing sweeping. In the docks, where available work fluctuated according to season, those who did the hiring were often publicans who coerced the labourers into spending their hard earned money in their public houses else they got no further work.

Most Irish Catholics in London were illiterate. They identified with their church to such an extent that ‘Catholic’ became equated with ‘Irish’. They were proud of their religion, but they were not good church goers (though more devout than the despised English ‘Protistints’ of the same class). However, about twenty per cent lived in areas where there was no Catholic church and there was not the hostility between Catholics and Protestants that was found in Lancashire. Where hostility existed it was because some sympathised with Home Rule (for Ireland) and most were prepared to live more cheaply and thus work for less. In the second and third generation with ‘ethnic fade’ they were frequently absorbed without problem into the host community.

https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/...ish_in_England

Very affluent family background I have . According to the censuses, my relatives were labourers, traders and costermongers, as above, and I suppose the 'ethnic fade' mentioned in the last sentence is why I wasn't aware of this Irish ancestry before. It would help to explain why my dad scores more NW on Gedmatch than I'd have expected, why he has the red hair and freckling genes with black curly hair and blue eyes, and why I have so many DNA relatives from Ireland through him.

[Daco Celtic]

Some more Irish Brits.

Liz Hurley, Irish grandfather