I2a in Greece from Slavic Slave Trade

[Dorian]

Which version of I2 is it?

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/europe...logroups.shtml

I don't see any source about it but I think it's obvious

[JQP4545]

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/europe...logroups.shtml

I don't see any source about it but I think it's obvious

I'm not sure if it is the same version found on the Mainland.

[Dianatomia]

The Turks took Constantinople so naturally its Byzantine inhabitants fled to mainland Greece. Their DNA would have included Slavic from the Crimean Khanate.

Well, the Turks took mainland Greece too. The elites from Constantinople fled, as far as I know many of them went to Italy. A bit of a long shot actually. But if they went to Greece they would be a minority. Minority genes are absorbed through the generations. They loose out. It's called genetic drift. There is not enough basis to assume I2a in Greece is from Slaves from the Crimea. There must have been something which has been persisting through the ages. I.e. continuous contact with Balkan tribes like Illyrians since pre-history. Or a massive invasion of some sort.
Some refugees from Constantinople which may have had Crimean Slavic slave ancestors is a long shot. Not to mention genetic drift may have already started in Constantinople centuries earlier as well.

[HellLander87]

JQ one has to be smart to get such stupid ideas such as yours.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

They also have undobtedly slavic kinds of an R1a with just a token amount of probable R1a-Z93. So I don't think that we can so easily rule out a slavic admix.

Two things. First, if that's the case I don't find anything.

Second, it doesn't mean anything anyway. Who's to say slavs don't come from croatia? Celts don't come from Ireland. That is their dna, not language.

TMRCA means much today, now supported by full Y-chromosome sequencing and estabilished mutation rates. And it all says - Dinaric clades came into existence relatively recent and took part in slavic migrations.

Nope, it has given misleading results over and over, it means very little. It's definitely not the same thing as "when it first evolved", which is what we actually care about.

What "all evidence"? Of course there was no entire replacement of any population there .Population of those days was struck by the Plague of Justinian and decreased a lot, what helped Slavs to take control, settle and mix. And that's probably why a I2-Din increased so much in percentage at some places.

Plague was in anatolia mostly, and EAST balkans. Less developed areas were not affected that much (as is always the case).

All the evidence is that much bigger historical migrations that were europe-shaking has little or no effect on local dna! So how on earth is this possible? Well, it's not really. There's literally a DOZEN cataclysmic events for modern greece and peloponnese and thrace and not in a million years would I believe they totally obliterated ALL local DNA.

The reality is most the people in this thread believe all west balkans DNA is absolute newcomer and all east balkans is 100% pure ancient greek, which is a complete joke. It has got to be the most exaggerated event in history, which locally is seen as biggest thing ever, but somehow is not even mentioned elsewhere.

It may sound a bit exaggeratedly but all of the populations there are like a mix between Greeks and Poles. It fits the bill very well. The incursion of Slavs is obvious, both in uniparental and genomic terms. It's supported by a history.

Well maybe the other two got mixed from them.... You can't just make these big assumptions. Croatians are NOT mixed in recent history studies show. Greeks are mixed like crazy, and poles not far behind. So I am just going to say this is bunk.

How can a hotspot imply an origin, explain it to me. Any haplogroup can start it's branching long after it's founding, especially when something disturbs in expansion.
You don't even realise how long bottlekneck did M458 clades undergo before they finally got more and more numerous. This can be applied anywhere.

The oldest forms of r1b and R are in India, but it's clear now that it did not originate in india. Natural selection, basically. Newest form of r1b is in basque territory. Maybe that's actually where r1b formed. It almost has to be since it's now clear R* made it to the ameriancs from europe with clovis culture.

[Artek]

Nope, it has given misleading results over and over, it means very little. It's definitely not the same thing as "when it first evolved", which is what we actually care about.

Now it doesn't. I mean, it will always have some scope of tolerance but it's range is lowering. The point of the whole method is, that there is on average one novel SNP by 3 generations and it works almost every time. It can change on various factors but not drastically, like Y-STR's.

Plague was in anatolia mostly, and EAST balkans. Less developed areas were not affected that much (as is always the case).

Even if mostly the port cities were struck - it's enough. It's not always about everyone dying but a chaos, economical crisis, unability to send and supply an army.

All the evidence is that much bigger historical migrations that were europe-shaking has little or no effect on local dna!

Quite brave hypothesis. Well, I can mostly agree.That was the case in Spain and Italy where germanic influences seem to be lower that you would think of. But those areas were populous, whereas places which are now the most slavic in Balkans- were not that much. Slavs had easier work there. Otherwise, they probably would have got absorbed and ended up like a greek, thraco-illyrian or romance-speaking population. Or maybe not (the per analogiam case of Hungary)

So how on earth is this possible? Well, it's not really. There's literally a DOZEN cataclysmic events for modern greece and peloponnese and thrace and not in a million years would I believe they totally obliterated ALL local DNA.

They replaced it from the same population in any case, just a smaller one due to the obvious reasons.

he reality is most the people in this thread believe all west balkans DNA is absolute newcomer and all east balkans is 100% pure ancient greek, which is a complete joke. It has got to be the most exaggerated event in history, which locally is seen as biggest thing ever, but somehow is not even mentioned elsewhere.

Of course it's neither this nor that. Even Alboz are partially Slavic (though they mostly don't want to admit it, ignorant and prejudiced bastards)Even Slovenes are still significantly Balkan - but they are quite different from IVth century inhabitants.

The oldest forms of r1b and R are in India, but it's clear now that it did not originate in india. Natural selection, basically. Newest form of r1b is in basque territory. Maybe that's actually where r1b formed.
It almost has to be since it's now clear R* made it to the ameriancs from europe with clovis culture.

It's an R1*. But I still wait for aDNA from Americas with that haplo. And even more importantly - an autosomal scores!