Is a College Diploma really worth it?

[Grey]

It's a pass to earning more by working less.

You say that like it's a bad thing. In general, although you do less manual labor, the work you are doing is more productive and requires more specialization, and therefore your job is more valuable. Any idiot can break his back for a living, which means they can easily be replaced and hence aren't that valuable. From the company's standpoint, I mean.

[SuuT]

...(god forbid they should go into the work force/to college and end up with a "lowly" job of say a plumber ...nevermind that plumbers are in great demand, are very "useful" to society, and make a tonne) ...

Most plumbers (who are in business for themselves) are millionaires after 5 years, too. They're no dummies. And they are their own boss! - Priceless.


A degree is absolutely worth the time and effort: There is a direct cause and effect relationship between someone's educational level and earnings, generally speaking. And specialised trade education (like Plumbers, craftsmen) make a mint as well.

I think the most important correlation, however, is that the more educated one is, the more they are - again, generally speaking - the master of their own destiny.


Go to school!

[Cail]

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Actually, quite the opposite, lol. Why would it be bad to work less and earn more?

[Birka]

Many of my friends that are my age who did not go to college have a variety of physical problems today. Bad knees, shoulders and hips from years of repetitive physical labor. When you are in your 20's and 30's, you can work all day long and feel good. But when you start to hit 40's and 50's, all those joints start to ache.

My friend who was a painter can hardly move his shoulder. A machinist has lots of problems with his hands and wrists. A carpet layer has already had operations on his knees, and lots of physical therapy on his shoulders, and he in not yet 40.

With a college degree, you usually do not put in 3 or 4 decades of repetitive physical labor.

[Stegura]

By posting these videos, I don't mean to rant against college or anything. However, I do think they make alot of valid points.

College is worth it if you're pursuing a profession like Medicine to be become a Nurse, Doctor, or a Physician, etc. College is worth it if you pursue a degree in Education in order to become a Teacher or a Professor. College is worth it if you're studying Law. College is worth it if you're studying Computers in order to get in IT Certification. College is worth it if you get into a good Business school. Basically, College is worth it if your degree will get you a License or a Certification that will open the door to a profitable and rewarding career.

However, College isn't worth it if you graduate with a Liberal Arts Degree (History, Media Studies, Social Work, Biology, English, etc.). Such degrees just don't give you any marketable skills for the real world job market. A Liberal Arts Degree doesn't prepare you for anything, it doesn't qualify you for anything, and it doesn't certify you for anything.

I graduated back in 2007 with a Degree in Social Sciences (a mixture of History, Geography, and Political Science), and I'm sad to say that it's essentially worthless. Likewise, I have quite a few friends who graduated with Liberal Arts Degree's and they're also struggling to find REAL JOBS. By real jobs I mean salaried work, Monday-Friday 9am-5pm work in an office with benefits. Basically, 2-3 years after receiving their Liberal Arts Degree they're still living at home with their parents and doing the same jobs they did straight out of High School. Many of them are also still pretty deep in Credit Card Debt from the Student Loans they took out to pay for College. The few people I knew who got well paying and satisfying jobs with a Liberal Arts Degree often had connections and knew the right people.

Sad to say, I'm in a similar situation. However, I was lucky that my parents paid for all of my college education.

I've noticed that people in my situation often pursue three different paths at this point.

1. They've likely been working at a Restaurant or in retail for 2-3 years after college. They stay that path, put in lots of hours and eventually work their way up to Supervisor, Assistant Manager, and then to General Manager.

2. Some are sick of their dead end jobs and are attracted to the benefits and job security that the Military provides. Their Liberal Arts will atleast get them the rack of E-4 or potentially even an Officer. Some stay in for 4 years learn a skill/trade and then get out, others make a career out of it.

3. After 2-3 years of working dead end jobs, they return to School. Only this time they attend a Trade/Vocational school or an Apprenticeship program where they can work, learn, and earn at the same time. Such schools are often loaded with people in their mid to late 20's, with many of their students actually being former college graduates.

After I graduated in 2007. I held out for awhile attending job fairs and sending out resumes. Unfortunately, I never had any luck. I spent about 6 months holding out for that one rewarding full-time job, but it never came. It just seems that today a Liberal Arts Degree is often looked at the same way a High School Diploma is.

So after two years of waiting tables, doing telemarketing, and doing Landscaping work. I'm looking to pursue option #3 which I listed above. I'll be turning 26 in February and I really need to start doing something worthwhile with my life.

Right now I'm looking to get into a good Work/Apprenticeship program in the Fall.

[SwordoftheVistula]

It's a pass to earning more by working less.

That was true in the past, when not as many people had degrees, but now that everyone has one, this is no longer true.

Here most people go to uni because they've got no other ideas of what they can do after graduating high school (god forbid they should go into the work force/to college and end up with a "lowly" job of say a plumber ...nevermind that plumbers are in great demand, are very "useful" to society, and make a tonne)

Yeah, that's a problem with society, is it misleads people away from jobs like plumber and tells people they won't be successful unless they go to college, when in reality this is not true. All through growing up I always heard from teachers, family, and society in general that going to college was the way to be successful, and had the general impression that plumbers, carpenters, truck drivers, crane operators, mechanics, etc all made little more than minimum wage and generally lived impoverished lives.

College is worth it if you pursue a degree in Education in order to become a Teacher or a Professor. College is worth it if you're studying Law. College is worth it if you're studying Computers in order to get in IT Certification. College is worth it if you get into a good Business school

This is no longer true, as these jobs were hit hard by the recent stock market crash. Many people who have been doing these jobs for a long time are still making very good money, but others have been laid off, and there is essentially no opportunity for new people in these fields since the layoffs caused by the recession created a large poor of experienced workers desperate for jobs.

Elementary/Secondary teachers: I saw a report recently that all fields are flooded, except for math teachers which are still in demand. Adding to the problem is so many people laid off in other fields now wanting to be teachers, and many of the random humanities students also try to go into teaching after graduation. Also with the real estate crash/recession local property taxes are done and most school districts are having to make budget cuts.

Law: Hit very hard by recession. May bounce back if/when recession ends, but is becoming increasingly saturated.

IT: Huge opportunities in late 90s, the damage was done more by the outsourcing in the early-mid 00s, though there are still a lot of high paying jobs in this area, and graduates with certifications can still usually get decent paying jobs. Problems come if you are older IT workers, due to rapidly changing technology I have known many older IT workers (40s or so) who have a very hard time finding jobs after getting laid off, even before the recent crash/recession.

Business: Flooded, a huge number of people now have degrees in this field, plus the recent crash/recession hit this area hard, and in addition the ongoing downsizing & outsourcing.


Nursing and other medical areas are still in huge demand and look to be for some time, also hard sciences and engineering.

[SuuT]

Anyone in pursuit of a degree in the Social Sciences/Humanities that wasn't told that they would require post-graduate education to survive in the world job market in that field was done a huge disservice by their college advisor. But in my experience, advisors attempt to beat this into the heads of students from freshman year on - and they just don't listen. They graduate, and subsequently forget that they 'were told so'.

In most of the Western world, a business degree has been essentially worthless since the mid-90's (due to market saturation); however, even now, a baccalaureate of Business can expect to make at least $1,000,000 more dollars over the course of their working life that they otherwise would have.

I'm not sure where S.O.V. is getting his information about Law; but Intellectual property Law, Contract Law, Health Law, Environmental Law and Personal Injury Law have never been bigger. Although I can see where an argument against pursuing General Practise could be made.

[Rachel]

My B.A. will be in social science with a concentration in teaching and a minor in business. So far from the posts above it seems that i have my bases covered. However i always have a nice comfy job with the government should i want to forgo looking for jobs right out of college. So i am very happy that i am set with a job at least currently. However it does seem worthless to me, to put in all this time and effort , do all the work of teachers and then throw it away for some comfy goverment job. I am just not sure yet what is going to happen.


However on another nots, it should be noted that networking in todays job market is essentially the most important tool anyone has in obtaining a job.

[SwordoftheVistula]

Anyone in pursuit of a degree in the Social Sciences/Humanities that wasn't told that they would require post-graduate education to survive in the world job market in that field was done a huge disservice by their college advisor. But in my experience, advisors attempt to beat this into the heads of students from freshman year on - and they just don't listen. They graduate, and subsequently forget that they 'were told so'.

If so, that's just one lonely voice in the wilderness, that students talk to maybe once or twice a quarter/semester. In my observation, students who go into Social Sciences/Humanities have already made their minds up well before they even begin applying for colleges. At least, that they are going to college directly after high school in the first place, having had this drummed into heads as an expectation all through childhood by parents, teachers, and society in general; then they go into a Social Sciences/Humanities subject because it's a subject they enjoy and/or it is easy. The concept of finding a job occurs to these people at the time of graduation, give or take a few months.

In most of the Western world, a business degree has been essentially worthless since the mid-90's (due to market saturation); however, even now, a baccalaureate of Business can expect to make at least $1,000,000 more dollars over the course of their working life that they otherwise would have.

Well if they are making "at least $1,000,000 more dollars over the course of their working life that they otherwise would have" then it's not "essentially worthless"? Or are you agreeing with journalist in the initial story that these people would have had the higher income even if they had been locked in a closet instead of going to college? Or that those who got their degrees prior to the mid-90's "can expect to make at least $1,000,000 more dollars over the course of their working life that they otherwise would have" but that it's essentially worthless for those who got their degrees after the mid-90s (this latter statement is the one closest to the truth in my opinion)

I'm not sure where S.O.V. is getting his information about Law; but Intellectual property Law, Contract Law, Health Law, Environmental Law and Personal Injury Law have never been bigger.

There's still money to be made in those areas, but not for new/recent entrants. In regards to IP specifically, even the US patent office is not hiring last I heard, and one of my profs who ran one of the larger firms in the area had to have layoffs for the first time in his career. Almost none of the people I graduated with have found full time legal employment. At the place I work now, there are 2 people with law degrees working for $7.50/hr. Paralegals I think are not in quite as bad shape since many firms are shifting work to them that they might otherwise have hired actual lawyers for in the past, but one of my friends is about to get laid off from his paralegal job too.

Some media articles:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/12/business/12law.html

You know things are bad when even lawyers are getting laid off.

In downturns of years past, law firms exploited corporate failures and bitter, protracted lawsuits to keep busy and keep billing. But in this still-unfolding crisis, the embittered and the bankrupt have been relatively slow to appear, at least in court.

Law firms in turn are feeling the strain. Thelen and Heller Ehrman, two firms whose deep San Francisco roots extend back decades, have collapsed outright, in part because of the business slowdown. Each firm left several hundred lawyers out in the cold. Many others, including Sonnenschein Nath & Rosenthal and Katten Muchin Rosenman, two Chicago firms ranked among the nation’s hundred most profitable by American Lawyer magazine, and the international giant Clifford Chance have jettisoned dozens of associates.

Still others, like Powell Goldstein, a firm based in Atlanta with more than 200 lawyers, are merging with larger rivals in deals that may be bids for stability. Over all, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reported on Friday that the legal services industry lost more than 1,000 jobs in October.

This is not how it is supposed to work; businesses are supposed to need lawyers in good times and bad alike.

A wave of big company litigation — those suits that pit armies of associates against each other — has also not materialized. A recent survey by one big firm, Fulbright & Jaworski, found fewer large companies reporting new lawsuits against them this year. Although executives may desperately want to sue one another over recent losses, they may not know how big those losses are or want to know how big they are. In any event, cash is precious in this downturn, and litigation is both costly and risky.


http://www.abajournal.com/news/artic...rst_year_ever/

Last year was the worst year ever for layoffs at large law firms, but there is one bright spot in the statistics: The pace is slowing.

According to the blog LawShucks, 12,196 people were laid off at 138 large law firms tracked last year. In all, 4,633 lawyers and 7,563 staffers lost their jobs.

[Óttar]

I think it has to do with whether you are in the middle class or better. If you are poor and you want a Master's or Ph.D., go for it. Otherwise, focus on practical certifications.