Dacians and Thracians

[blogen]

Sure,so what happened with all the people in Dacia after roman withdrawal, including free dacians?

Germans happened. The Germans conquered everything here and a non German population does not have an archaeological sign after the Roman age. No Dacians, nobody, only Germans, so maybe the very small number of the survivor postroman population assimilated into the Germans. The story of the Roman culture was interrupted here, nobody came back for the concealed treasures, the burials did not continue in the cemeteries and the cemeteries dating ends in 270, the settlements were lost. The new inhabitants' culture follows the Germanic tradition (Chernyakhov culture). The Sarmatian fortification system in the Hungarian plain built against them:

And who the hell says dacians were not natives of Transilvania other than your people?

Everybody in the scientific word. The Roman population's decay is a well-known fact. Anyway, the natives question cannot be interpreted. Natives since when? Scythians lived in Transylvania before the 4th century BC (Agathyrsi). After this century the Celtic and Geta conquest started. This Geta population will be the ancestor of the Transylvanian Dacians in the Southwestern part of Transylvania. The Roman conquest destroys this population partly and the German totally. The Avars chase away the Germans and their residual assimilated into the Slavs. The Magyars conquered the Slavs and a part of theirs was assimilated, but the arriving Vlachs assimilate an other part of this Slavs in the 13th century. So nobody native here, but everybody was an aborigine after a time.

[TheForeigner]

If romanians only arrived in 13th century, how come gesta hungarorum written around 1200 mentions them as allready being present there? How could they forget. of mogrations was barely starting according to this theory?

[Fakirbakir]

If romanians only arrived in 13th century, how come gesta hungarorum written around 1200 mentions them as allready being present there? How could they forget. of mogrations was barely starting according to this theory?

We do not know the exact date when Anonymus's Gesta was written. The Vlach migration to Transylvania supposedly started in the 12th century because Terram Blacorum had already been a Vlach region in 1222. Moreover, scholars surmise a Vlach migration in the 11th and 12th centuries because of the appearance of written sources about Vlachs north of the Danube.

"The late 12th-century chronicle of Niketas Choniates contains another early reference to Vlachs living north of the Danube. He wrote that they seized the future Byzantine emperor, Andronikos Komnenos when "he reached the borders of Halych" in 1164"


"Pope Gregory IX wrote about "a certain people in the Cumanian bishopric called Walati" and their bishops around 1234. A royal charter of 1223 confirming a former grant of land is the earliest official document of Romanians in Transylvania"


"According to the next document, the Teutonic Knights received the right to pass through the lands possessed by the Székelys and the Vlachs in 1223. Next year the Transylvanian Saxons were entitled to use certain forests together with the Vlachs and Pechenegs."

Anonymus wrote nothing about the real enemies of the Hungarians in 895 however he precisely wrote about the Transylvanian ethnic situation of the 12th and 13th centuries (Cumans, Hungarians, Vlachs).

[blogen]

If romanians only arrived in 13th century, how come gesta hungarorum written around 1200 mentions them as allready being present there? How could they forget. of mogrations was barely starting according to this theory?

The whole environment in the Gesta Hungarorum is the very early 13th century reality of the Carpathian basin. The author knew this only and wrote about this when he reconstructed the old ages. He mentions the Cumanians many times for example, but this was a clear anachronism. Good example onto this the reference of the Blachi name:

These peoples lived in Pannonia according Anonymus: "Sclavi, Bulgarii et Blachii ac pastores romanorum"

In the contemporary Slavonic language, the voloch term was not only the Latin's name, but the people's name of their empire to. For example a toponym from the medieval Hungary: The Hungarian Olaszi in Sirmium (Pannonia) = villa Francarum advenarurn from 1096 in a Latin text or Olaszliszka (Northeastern Hungary) = Franca villa in 1224, etc.

He wrote about the real Vlachs:

"cumanorum et bulgarorum atque blacorum"

With the Cumanians, what was clearly anachronism in the 10th century, but not in the late 12th and early 13th century. And he wrote about the Blachs, the Turkic tribe*:

"Gelou ducem blacorum"
"Quia essent blasij et sclaui, quia alia arma non haberent, nisi arcum et sagittas, et dux eorum geleou"

Since at this time the Blaks were borderguards in Eastern Transsylvania (and we have many Turkish place-names from here) in a dominantly Slavonic populated region based on the topo and hyronyms:



*Blak (Blak, Blac, Blaq, Blaci, Blasi, Blachi, Blacci, Blacus, Blacki, etc.) from the bulak color name, white calico [horse].

[Fakirbakir]

Not surprisingly, Cumans and Vlachs in the 12th and 13 centuries were "very close" to each other.

"In 1089, Ladislaus I of Hungary defeated the Cumans after they attacked the Kingdom of Hungary. In 1091, the Pechenegs, a semi-nomadic Turkic people of the prairies of southwestern Eurasia, were decisively defeated as an independent force at the Battle of Levounion by the combined forces of a Byzantine army under Emperor Alexios I Komnenos and a Cuman army under Togortok/Tugortak and Bunaq. Attacked again in 1094 by the Cumans, many Pechenegs were again slain. The remnants of the Pechenegs fled to Hungary, as the Cumans themselves would do a few decades later. In alliance with the Bulgarians and Vlachs, the Cumans are believed to have played a significant role in the in the Vlach-Bulgar Rebellion led by brothers Asen and Peter of Tarnovo, resulting in victory over Byzantium and the restoration of Bulgaria's independence in 1185. Istvan Vasary states that without the active participation of the Cumans, the Vlakho-Bulgarian rebels could never have gained the upper hand over the Byzantines, and ultimately without the military support of the Cumans, the process of Bulgarian restoration could never have been realised. The Cuman participation in the creation of the Second Bulgarian Empire in 1185 and thereafter brought about basic changes in the political and ethnic sphere of Bulgaria and the Balkans. The Cumans were allies in the Bulgarian-Latin Wars with emperor Kaloyan of Bulgaria, who was descended from the Cumans. In 1205, their light cavalry contributed to Kaloyan's crushing victory over the Latin Crusaders. The Cumans who remained east and south of the Carpathian Mountains established a counrty named Cumania, in an area consisting parts of Moldavia and Walachia. The Hungarian kings claimed supremacy over some areas of Cumania — among the nine titles of the Hungarian kings of the Árpád and Anjou dynasties were rex Cumaniae. The Cuman influence in Wallachia and Moldavia was very strong, according to some historians who claim that the earliest Wallachian rulers bore Cuman names (e.g., Tihomir and Bassarab)."

[Vlach]

We do not know the exact date when Anonymus's Gesta was written. The Vlach migration to Transylvania supposedly started in the 12th century because Terram Blacorum had already been a Vlach region in 1222. Moreover, scholars surmise a Vlach migration in the 11th and 12th centuries because of the appearance of written sources about Vlachs north of the Danube.

"The late 12th-century chronicle of Niketas Choniates contains another early reference to Vlachs living north of the Danube. He wrote that they seized the future Byzantine emperor, Andronikos Komnenos when "he reached the borders of Halych" in 1164"


"Pope Gregory IX wrote about "a certain people in the Cumanian bishopric called Walati" and their bishops around 1234. A royal charter of 1223 confirming a former grant of land is the earliest official document of Romanians in Transylvania"


"According to the next document, the Teutonic Knights received the right to pass through the lands possessed by the Székelys and the Vlachs in 1223. Next year the Transylvanian Saxons were entitled to use certain forests together with the Vlachs and Pechenegs."

Anonymus wrote nothing about the real enemies of the Hungarians in 895 however he precisely wrote about the Transylvanian ethnic situation of the 12th and 13th centuries (Cumans, Hungarians, Vlachs).

Another pathetic hungarian argument

[TheForeigner]

Why don't you post some info and maps about dacians and thracians and their ethnolinguistic space?

[blogen]

Why don't you post some info and maps about dacians and thracians and their ethnolinguistic space?

In the first page.

[TheForeigner]

I eant Velaxa should or other romanians too.

[Antimage]

There's no Hungary, Azerbaijan and Turkey in these times lol

and? No Romania, no Greece, no Austria, no Croatia, no Serbia, no Poland, no Bulgaria. At that time none of the countries that exist today