R1b: Indo-European or not?

[Sizzo]

In other words, is Western Europe Indo-European (genetically and phisically) or not? Were Italics, Celts and Germanics Aryan people or only Aryanized people? And then: which is the Indo-European admixture? How could I determine how much is my Indo-European DNA?

[blogen]

Yes and not. Basically the R1b was a sign of the Cardium pottery peoples and they were definitely not Indoeuropeans (maybe the Basque peoples are their remains). But presumaby there were some R1b Indoeurpean too.

[Ianus]

I don't think R1b is connected with IE. I understood that most ancient sublades on R1b come from Anatolia, so they probabily were farmer.

[SardiniaAtlantis]

I don't think R1b is connected with IE. I understood that most ancient sublades on R1b come from Anatolia, so they probabily were farmer.

Yes it is 22% in Sardinia so that makes sense.

[Sizzo]

I don't think R1b is connected with IE. I understood that most ancient sublades on R1b come from Anatolia, so they probabily were farmer.

Who brought, for example, the U152 (S28) in Italy then? Anatolian farmers from the Danube? La Tène and Hallstatt weren't Indo-European stations?

[blogen]

Yes it is 22% in Sardinia so that makes sense.

No, this is why not Indoeuropean! The yellow regions in this map were not Indoeuropeans before the Bronze/Iron age and sometimes the Roman Empire:



And this is the distriubution of the R1b in Europe:

[SardiniaAtlantis]

No, this is why not Indoeuropean! The yellow regions in this map were not Indoeuropeans before the Bronze/Iron age and sometimes the Roman Empire:



And this is the distriubution of the R1b in Europe:

Yes I am aware of that fact, but that along with the Neolithic non IE farmer populations makes sense to me. It must be connected to the Farmer population to some extent.

[blogen]

Yes I am aware of that fact, but that along with the Neolithic non IE farmer populations makes sense to me. It must be connected to the Farmer population to some extent.

Yes, definitely the farmers!

[Damião de Góis]

Anatolian R1b is different from western european one, apart from the fact that there is no S116, U152, U106, etc in Anatolia.

[Fire Haired]

Yes and not. Basically the R1b was a sign of the Cardium pottery peoples and they were definitely not Indoeuropeans (maybe the Basque peoples are their remains). But presumaby there were some R1b Indoeurpean too.

There are five Y DNA samples from the Cardium pottery culture from 5000BC, 4 were G2a-P15 and 1 was E1b1b-V13, in line with Y DNA from other Neolithic European farmers. There are over 30 Y DNA samples from Neolithic west Europe, not one is R1b. West European specific R1b L11 spread rapidly(does not have a clear place of origin because of that) and is estimated to be 5,000 years old. R1b1a2-M269 first appears in ancient west European Y DNA in German Bell Beaker 4,600 years ago, that is exactly where it was expected to be based on research on modern people. R1b L11 is constant with spreading with Indo Europeans because it arrived when Indo European cultures did, and has language or culture specific subclades(Germanic R1b-S21, Urnfield R1b-U152, Insular Celtic R1b-L21, etc.). mtDNA from the Bell Beaker site of the two R1b samples, were obviously of Indo European origin not native Neolithic origin, so they were probably early western Indo Europeans.