The Irish-Iberian Connection Theory is a Myth

[Grace O'Malley]

With family tree up to bronze age desirable




How many ancient samples are there for such a firm believe?

They have enough to know. Someone like Prof Dan Bradley has genomes from all eras from Ireland in his lab. He came out and said there was a population replacement in Ireland during the Bronze Age. A lot of his stuff is waiting to be published but he is the man behind the Rathlin paper. He would know what he is talking about.

There is also a lot of stuff from Reich. They would have a lot of the testing done and there will be more papers on ancient dna released.

If someone wants to ignore all the evidence there is really nothing more I can add.

[Fantomas]

They have enough to know. Someone like Prof Dan Bradley has genomes from all eras from Ireland in his lab. He came out and said there was a population replacement in Ireland during the Bronze Age. A lot of his stuff is waiting to be published but he is the man behind the Rathlin paper. He would know what he is talking about.

There is also a lot of stuff from Reich. They would have a lot of the testing done and there will be more papers on ancient dna released.

If someone wants to ignore all the evidence there is really nothing more I can add.

Yes, for a while i'm going to ignore absence of evidence, and if D.Bradley or someone else makes grand proclamations without having ancient samples, that's just shows lower scientific value of his opinion

[Grace O'Malley]

Yes, for a while i'm going to ignore absence of evidence, and if D.Bradley or someone else makes grand proclamations without having ancient samples, that's just shows lower scientific value of his opinion

Fantomas the point is he has ancient samples. Anyway even in the latest Reich paper all the ydna in Britain before the Bronze Age was I. It is fairly straightforward stuff. The ydna that came with the Bell Beakers was R1b. There is also the fact that the Bell Beakers have a significant amount of ANE and the Neolithic genomes have none.

http://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorx...35962.full.pdf

[Fantomas]

http://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorx...35962.full.pdf

LN individuals
18-Scotland
4-England
1-France
0-Ireland
0-Spain

And how many Y from them? If at leat half ,honestly i impressed its a real huge sampling. I hope if D.Bradly or whoever, is gonna postulate some new dogma he'd gather more input data

[Grace O'Malley]

LN individuals
18-Scotland
4-England
1-France
0-Ireland
0-Spain

And how many Y from them? If at leat half ,honestly i impressed its a real huge sampling. I hope if D.Bradly or whoever, is gonna postulate some new dogma he'd gather more input data

Spain is on a different paper which has been linked previously. Dr Bradley's study was the Rathlin paper. All these results are cumulative. You can search for them. They have more genomes but haven't released the papers yet. They are geneticists and obviously know what they are talking about.

This is a direct quote from the Rathlin paper.

The Neolithic and Bronze Age transitions were profound cultural shifts catalyzed in parts of Europe by migrations, first of early farmers from the Near East and then Bronze Age herders from the Pontic Steppe. However, a decades-long, unresolved controversy is whether population change or cultural adoption occurred at the Atlantic edge, within the British Isles. We address this issue by using the first whole genome data from prehistoric Irish individuals. A Neolithic woman (3343–3020 cal BC) from a megalithic burial (10.3× coverage) possessed a genome of predominantly Near Eastern origin. She had some hunter–gatherer ancestry but belonged to a population of large effective size, suggesting a substantial influx of early farmers to the island. Three Bronze Age individuals from Rathlin Island (2026–1534 cal BC), including one high coverage (10.5×) genome, showed substantial Steppe genetic heritage indicating that the European population upheavals of the third millennium manifested all of the way from southern Siberia to the western ocean. This turnover invites the possibility of accompanying introduction of Indo-European, perhaps early Celtic, language. Irish Bronze Age haplotypic similarity is strongest within modern Irish, Scottish, and Welsh populations, and several important genetic variants that today show maximal or very high frequencies in Ireland appear at this horizon. These include those coding for lactase persistence, blue eye color, Y chromosome R1b haplotypes, and the hemochromatosis C282Y allele; to our knowledge, the first detection of a known Mendelian disease variant in prehistory. These findings together suggest the establishment of central attributes of the Irish genome 4,000 y ago.

There is really not a lot more to be added.

[Fantomas]

Spain is on a different paper which has been linked previously. Dr Bradley's study was the Rathlin paper. All these results are cumulative. You can search for them. They have more genomes but haven't released the papers yet. They are geneticists and obviously know what they are talking about.

This is a direct quote from the Rathlin paper.

The Neolithic and Bronze Age transitions were profound cultural shifts catalyzed in parts of Europe by migrations, first of early farmers from the Near East and then Bronze Age herders from the Pontic Steppe. However, a decades-long, unresolved controversy is whether population change or cultural adoption occurred at the Atlantic edge, within the British Isles. We address this issue by using the first whole genome data from prehistoric Irish individuals. A Neolithic woman (3343–3020 cal BC) from a megalithic burial (10.3× coverage) possessed a genome of predominantly Near Eastern origin. She had some hunter–gatherer ancestry but belonged to a population of large effective size, suggesting a substantial influx of early farmers to the island. Three Bronze Age individuals from Rathlin Island (2026–1534 cal BC), including one high coverage (10.5×) genome, showed substantial Steppe genetic heritage indicating that the European population upheavals of the third millennium manifested all of the way from southern Siberia to the western ocean. This turnover invites the possibility of accompanying introduction of Indo-European, perhaps early Celtic, language. Irish Bronze Age haplotypic similarity is strongest within modern Irish, Scottish, and Welsh populations, and several important genetic variants that today show maximal or very high frequencies in Ireland appear at this horizon. These include those coding for lactase persistence, blue eye color, Y chromosome R1b haplotypes, and the hemochromatosis C282Y allele; to our knowledge, the first detection of a known Mendelian disease variant in prehistory. These findings together suggest the establishment of central attributes of the Irish genome 4,000 y ago.

There is really not a lot more to be added.

I'm afraid to ask, what data was used by him for Y-dna statistical comparison with later population, sample of one Irish early neolithic woman?

[Neon Knight]

Dr. Bradley there talks about possibilites and suggestions because he knows the sample numbers are nowhere near great enough to be statistically significant. It's certainly worthy of further study but far from conclusive.

That's because after the Bronze Age a lot of populations didn't have much genetic input from others. Areas like Ireland had the biggest genetic input during the Bronze Age from Bell Beakers and nothing comparable since. So or course populations will have some differences e.g. Southeast England had the Anglo-Saxons and other input from Continental Europe.

My brother's subclade under M222 has been dated to 1,500 years. I'm awaiting Big Y results though. R1b-L21 is apparently approx 4,000 years old.

I'm saying that even without any admixture a population can genetically drift from its origins due to mutations which are passed around within that population and eventually become characteristic of it. That's a big part of the reason that Europeans cannot simply be described as HG + ANE + Yamnaya. Where did the M222 subclade come from? It seems to be an Irish original, so won't there be autosomal Irish originals as well?

[BarcelonaAtlantis]

The nazis(nasi means deception in hebrew)are anti real europeans/kings=basques/catalans=celts because they are scumbags(neanderthals) passing off as real europeans to demonize the real europeans(cromagnons=basques/celts),so realize how easily innocent and decent people can be demonized if the basques/celts say we are the cradle of europe, because of the doomed nazis for pretending to represent europeans.But people should know the nazis bombed barcelona and the basque country and should see right away that the nazis are imposters when you realize the nazis bombed the cradle of europe.Realize how easily they can shape your opinion with false flags and hoaxes passed off as real events.Nazis and jews are imposters.You are programmed to dislike the awake people that unmasks these doomed fuckers

Listen on 5:20

[Septentrion]

Different subclades, but from one root





I'll never get the unswer how this scheme of correlations between ethno-cultural phenomenon and autosomal sets works. Many people like to talk about it and even call it as some evidence, but no one can explain essence of this sacramental knowledge.
There's no any link neither Atlantic nor anything other at all! And the only "evidence" that comes with it that Europeans have common origin

Sure all Europeans have ultimately a common origin. No one is debating about that, are they? The problem is when people were trying to make a "special" link of the Irish people of Northern Europe to the Spaniards of Southern Europe. There is no special link, it is all myths! The R1b did not arise in Iberia, rather came from the east into Western Europe and various branches arose at different times too. For example the R1b-L21 entered the British Islands before the R1b-DF27 entered Iberia. There are also other R1b branches, such as the R1b-U106 which is the commonest Y-DNA haplogroup in the Low Countries, and it is also the most common Y-DNA haplogroup in England, due to the Anglo-Saxons invasions.

[Septentrion]

I mean ancient samples (Nordic Iron Age) actually, because comparing of todays sets is no sence on the subject of ancient connetion,
, Iberia are closer to Ireland, than another south European countries, and Ireland are closer to Iberia, for instance than many Northern lands. How is it possible?


Add to this Y-dna S116 set and you get "specific Atlantic connection".

And once again, mtdna distance and difference, especially todays, between Europeans is so small, that in itself proves nothing. Neither absence nor presence of some ancient connections!

Monsieur Fantomas! Think before you write. We can see clearly by the HINXTON 1 genetic map that the Irish and also Britons are closer to the more northern part of Europe than Iberia, O.K. Thus there is absolutely no specific connection there!