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Interesting topic. It would be great to get evidence pro and against. I'll try and find out more information but I'll just say briefly for now that the genetics doesn't seem to support a connection. I know there is the romantic Celtic connection but most people became Celtic through culture not a change of population. Even if there were some Celts they did not replace most of the people that were originally there. I have looked into this topic because I find it very interesting and I know a lot of people support a connection. I've always wondered about it and found it a bit puzzling and the reason being why would Ireland have a particularly close connection with Iberia when she is located so close to Britain and Britain is closer to the continent. If Ireland had a connection to Iberia then Britain would have to also. If you read Mallory on the Origin of the Irish he states that the Irish were first on Britain before crossing over to Ireland at a later time and this was repeated throughout history. Britain became inhabited first and then people would cross over to Ireland after a period of time. It also went the other way with the Irish crossing over to Britain and of course Dalriada is a great example of this. The Irish and British share similar origins with the only difference been that Ireland became more isolated at different periods of time and Britain got more recent input from the Continent via input from the low lands and Northern France. There has been people on both these islands moving to and fro at different times to the extent that now their genetics are so similar that they all cluster together.
Another thing that doesn't support Iberian genetics in the Irish is that the Irish cluster more north of the English with the Scots and Orcadians. The Irish have had less Germanic input than Britain and are a more isolated population yet they cluster more north of the English. The Irish and the British also cluster close to the Netherlands, Norway and Denmark. That is not because of Vikings. If it were due to Vikings they would have had to completely replace the original population that was there and come in huge numbers which didn't happen. The reason why the Irish are so northern is obvious and that is because they have always been a northern population.
Looking at the R1b situation. The Irish are nearly all L21 and I feel this is because of founder effect. Some very powerful warlords and Kings were in control of Ireland like Niall of the Nine Hostages who had over 100 wives and numerous concubines. He had many sons who in turn had many children. M222 in Ireland is so numerous in the North West of Ireland that 1 in 5 men carry this y-dna marker. There are people researching the y-dna in Ireland and its origins. A lot of Irish y-dna has been traced to Britain and before that to Northern France. M222 has also been found in places like Switzerland and Germany. Brian Boru was also L21 but had a different marker than Niall and he of course had many descendants. So this is why Ireland is so top heavy with L21.
I'm very interested in hearing other people's opinions on this subject. People should be able to express their views so that it can be discussed in a serious manner. But yes the genetics is the thing which shows what the origins of the Irish are.
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Celticity was a culture and not a genetic plot.
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Q-Celtic is older than P-Celtic and the reason offered why Ireland retained Q-Celtic is because it was isolated when the change to P-Celtic happened in Britain. There is evidence that Ireland was cut off at different periods of time in her history and also suffered large fluctuations in her population. People crossing over from Britain replaced some of these populations and there is a theory that M222 came to Ireland from Britain by Celts being scattered due to Roman incursions. There is some very knowledgeable posters on Anthrogenica who know Irish history in depth and also are tracing y-dna in Ireland and connecting Celtic tribes to the y-dna.
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Yes it seems to be mostly cultural as at one time large areas of Europe had a Celtic language and culture and these populations don't seem to share a genetic connection. Austria was a Celtic country in the past and there doesn't appear to be any shared genetics with the Celtic countries in North Western Europe.
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I'm looking for people like me, who are crazy, fun, and not afraid of life. and one day when I find them, we'll escape, we'll break out of the zoo.
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Patrick McMahon analyzed the geographic distribution of the members of the L21 project at FTDNA in January 2011 and made the following observation.
Assuming today's testers are a random sample, these results support the views put forward by many that the L21 SNP occurred somewhere north of the Alps (about 4,000 years ago) and the L21 population drifted Northwest over time concentrating in the western fringes of the British Isles mainly in Ireland. North of the Alps would most likely be Germany or France where the original (presumed) high numbers would over time be replaced by further waves of migrants or simply driven North by more advanced civilisations.
How they made their way to Ireland is open to conjecture. The shortest sea journey then (3,000 to 4,000 years ago) as now would be from France to Southern England. However, they could have made their way directly to Ireland from Brittany (or via Cornwall or Wales). The figures support the view that there was no significant migration towards the Eastern parts of Europe and only minor ones to Scandinavia and Spain with the main thrust through Northern France to Britain and Ireland. Archaeologists have termed these peoples (and the proto-Collas are part of this population) as 'Bronze-age' Britons.
The information above was copied from FTDNA about the Three Collas which is one of the founding dynasties of Ireland.
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