The Irish-Iberian Connection Theory is a Myth

[awyr dywyll]

According to archaeology, genethic, anthropology, linguistics and history, yes, Irish and Iberian had a connection in the past

[Grace O'Malley]

According to archaeology, genethic, anthropology, linguistics and history, yes, Irish and Iberian had a connection in the past

Could you put in some links regarding these connections? Thanks.

[awyr dywyll]

However,evidence that is becoming available indicates that different influences reached different parts of Ireland.This view is based on the assumption that hill-forts provide evidence for a change in society and that this hill-fort building society had iron artifacts. Univallate hill-forts have an eastern distribution and a British background.As yet, due to the lack of a find assemblage and the fact that coarse pottery cannot be dated closely, it’s not nown when the first univallate hill-forts were erected.

The dating of multivallate hill-forts is also uncertain.Only Cahercommaun has been excavated and while some of the finds can be assigned to the prehistoric period they don’t provide close dating.On the evidence of ground plan an ultimate Iberian origin can be suggested for these forts.On the dating of the Spanish castros the builders of Group II hill-forts could have arrived in Ireland by the middle of the first millennium BC.As futher evidence for an Iberian connection at this time the chevaux-de-frise has cited.Harbison (1971) has dismissed the Spanish connection in view of the fact that there it has an inland distribution.But even if the chevaux-de-frise did not get to Ireland from Spain there is an assemblage of monuments that has an Atlantic European background.As Leeds pointed out,stone forts occur in north-west Iberia.Promontary forts are at least known as far south as Brittany and they are also common in Western Britain,especially in Cornwall and Pembrokeshire.Excluding Pembrokeshire, souterrains have also been found in those areas.So perhaps there was a movement of people up the Atlantic coast of Europe and on settling in Ireland they started to build a number of new types of settlement sites.While there are strong indications for suggesting that the Iron Age had a dual origin, when it commenced still remains an open question. But if future research proves that it was about the middle of the first millennium BC,this date shouldn’t come as a surprise

http://books.google.kg/books?id=HdFS...ection&f=false

varieties of unreduced or unaltered Palaeolithic man; two varieties of brunet Mediterranean, of which the sea-borne Atlanto-Mediterranean is the more important; the two principal surviving variants of the Iron Age Nordic group; brachycephals of Dinaric or Armenoid type, as well as the composite Beaker type which is a blend of Dinaric, Borreby, and early Corded elements.
In England, the Germanic element is the most distinctive; in Wales it is the Atlanto- Mediterranean; in Scotland it is a combination of Bronze Age and Scandinavian elements in the northeast, of Irish with Atlanto-Mediterranean in the west; in Ireland the one fact of greatest importance is the reлmergence of the old northern Palaeolithic stock. The Keltic Iron Age racial type is least important in northeastern Scotland, where Keltic speech never penetrated, and in Wales, where it has attained its maximum survival.

Historically, we have seen that Ireland was settled at successive periods by Palaeolithic survivors from northern Europe by way of Scotland, by Megalithic Atlanto-Mediterraneans, by Dinaric peoples from the eastern Mediterranean who came by way of Spain, by Keltic Iron Age Nordics, and by various groups of Scandinavians, of Normans, and of English. Of these various peoples the one which gave the island its language and the characteristic flavor of its historic culture was the Keltic. Christian Iron Age skeletal remains, from various parts of Ireland, belong predominantly to the Keltic Iron Age type, and are very similar to the skeletal series from sixteenth century London reviewed in the last section.

We have now reviewed in some detail the racial characters of the living Irish, and are prepared to make some tentative conclusions. These are: the Irish people represent a blend between two principal racial groups, (a) the survivors of the unreduced Upper Palaeolithic people of northwestern Europe, in a mesocephalic or sub-brachycephalic form, and (b) a Keltic Iron Age Nordic. The other two factors, (c) the tall, long-headed Mediterranean formbrought by the Megalithic invaders, and (d) the Dinaric introduced during the Bronze Age, have both been submerged by the earliest and latest population waves.

It is impossible at present to define with equal clarity the two minor types; the Atlanto-Mediterranean element, if it were brown eyed and black haired, has completely lost its original pigment qualities through mixture. Yet "Mediterranean" types can be isolated in Ireland, and one may perhaps ascribe to them the occurrance of prognathism and some of the curly hair. If we grant that the eye color of the Megalithic people may have borne the germ of blondism, and may have changed, through mixture and other causes, to mixed and blue, then there are Megalithic descendants in Ireland who can easily be recognized. The planoccipital, brachycephalic, aquiline-nosed Dinaric element, if it were ever brunet, must also have lost its original pigment association; today it is frequently red haired.
http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/chapter-X2.htm

3. Classic Mediterranean
(Reduced derivatives of the Upper Palaeolithic and Iranian Plateau subraces)
Two subtypes:
Characters:
(a) Skeleton: gracile, skull smooth with small brow-ridges and mastoids
(b) Beard and body hair: sparse
(c) Face narrow, oval; chin pointed
(d) Nose form: in the Upper Palaeolithic derivative, straight with medium thick tip, elevated or horizontal; in the Iran Plateau derivative, very thin, high-bridged, often aquiline nose, always convex, with thin, depressed tip and recurved alae
(e) Stature: usually under 166 cm.
(f) Body build: usually slender
Distribution: the hook-nosed type particularly in Arabia and the Near East among Arabs and Jews; the straight-nosed type there and in the whole Mediterranean basin and sporadically in eastern, central, and northwestern Europe.

Certainly, the most archaic morphological type of the Mediterranean subrace is that known as Upper Palaeolithic, sometimes also called Galley Hill or Combe Capelle (or, by Coon, the “Bruenn race”) from type fossil finds in Europe, and also frequently referred to as Atlanto-Mediterranean (Deniker). This exceptionally long-headed type is notable for the great size of the brain-case and its rugged bony construction. The face is commonly long and massive, but it may be rather short, perhaps oftenest when bodily stature is below medium. The jaws are nearly always deep and heavy. It seems improbable that this type, when identified in Wales, Cornwall, and Ireland, or elsewhere, represents the pure lineal descendants of Upper Palaeolithic men. It is more likely to be due to recombination of genetic factors from old strains. It is hard to believe that anywhere in Europe there are inbred, unmixed survivors of Palaeolithic colonies. This type, which is easy to recognize, but does not easily lend itself to selection by any mechanical sorting process, is fairly common in Iran and Iraq an probably elsewhere in the Middle East. In Ireland, England, and the United States, a very closely similar type, that differs only in that eyes are mixed instead of dark, is sorted out as the residual Nordic-Mediterranean type, on the assumption that the lightening of eye pigmentation is due to admixture with the blond Nordic stock. This may or may not be the correct interpretation. There are virtually no pure dark eyes (medium brown, dark brown, or black) in Ireland, and hence, by sorting criteria, practically no pure Mediterraneans. However, the type, complete with dark eyes and dark hair, seems a little commoner in Britain and the United States.
There are two variants of the Classic Mediterranean type - straight-nosed and hook-nosed. The former is the more primitive and the more widely distributed. It extended in prehistoric times along both shores of the Mediterranean, into central, western, and northern Europe and down into the Horn of Africa.
http://dienekes.awardspace.com/texts/hootonmed/

Stephen Oppenheimer

This is too drastic a view. It is only the central European homeland theory that is false. The connection between modern Celtic languages and those spoken in southwest Europe during Roman times is clear and valid. Caesar wrote that the Gauls living south of the Seine called themselves Celts. That region, in particular Normandy, has the highest density of ancient Celtic place-names and Celtic inscriptions in Europe. They are common in the rest of southern France (excluding the formerly Basque region of Gascony), Spain, Portugal and the British Isles. Conversely, Celtic place-names are hard to find east of the Rhine in central Europe.

Given the distribution of Celtic languages in southwest Europe, it is most likely that they were spread by a wave of agriculturalists who dispersed 7,000 years ago from Anatolia, travelling along the north coast of the Mediterranean to Italy, France, Spain and then up the Atlantic coast to the British Isles. There is a dated archaeological trail for this. My genetic analysis shows exact counterparts for this trail both in the male Y chromosome and the maternally transmitted mitochondrial DNA right up to Cornwall, Wales, Ireland and the English south coast.

Further evidence for the Mediterranean origins of Celtic invaders is preserved in medieval Gaelic literature. According to the orthodox academic view of "iron-age Celtic invasions" from central Europe, Celtic cultural history should start in the British Isles no earlier than 300 BC. Yet Irish legend tells us that all six of the cycles of invasion came from the Mediterranean via Spain, during the late Neolithic to bronze age, and were completed 3,700 years ago.

[awyr dywyll]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...2/figure/fig1/
Common subclades in both regions originated from ancestor S116

[gold_fenix]

According to archaeology, genethic, anthropology, linguistics and history, yes, Irish and Iberian had a connection in the past

that is was very time ago to the celtic population, perhaps related with neolithic population of the atlantic zone

[awyr dywyll]

This dissertation allowed me to research the question of whether Galicia has a Gaelic/Celtic
past as asserted by the LGE, a point often debated by modern scholars. In order to address
this question, I have compared the Irish/Gaelic language with some Galician toponymy, with
revelatory and extraordinary results. When I applied the Irish/Gaelic language to the Galician
place names, which have no meaning in any Latin-based languages such as Gallego and
Spanish, they recovered their original meanings. The result of this toponymic investigation
coincides with the opinion of Professor Ó hÓgáin, who asserts that Q-Celtic was spoken in
Ireland and the Iberian Peninsula in pre-Christian times. The LGE asserts that the Milesians,
coming from Galicia, spoke the same language as the the Tuatha De Danánn, the settlers of
Ireland, and this linguistic observation would appear to confirm a pre-Christian connection
between Ireland and Galicia. This investigation led me to attempt to answer the third
question, i.e. is it possible that there was a connection between Ireland and Galician in preChristian times? Having discovered that the Galician toponymy acquires meaning when
Irish/Gaelic lexis is applied to it, I hypothesise, contrary to the views of some contemporary
scholars, that there was indeed a sociolinguistic connection between Ireland and Galicia. This
premise is also confirmed by Professor Ó hÓgáin and Dr. Alonso, who postulate that there
existed a pre-Christian relationship among territories situated in the North Atlantic area. It
was noted in the literature review of this dissertation that there are strong links between
language and culture. Most of the toponymy analysed in this dissertation has a religious
content, with place names based on the names of gods and goddesses from Indo-European
(IE) etymological and cultural sources that coincide with the Irish pre-Christian religious
pantheon, which also has IE roots.
The analysed spiritual symbolism of both groups, the Milesians and the Tuatha De Danánn
also coincides, leading me to acknowledge that they had shared religious beliefs of IE origins.
Also, I have included in Appendix E of this dissertation, illustrations of some Galician
torques that are similar to those found in Ireland. Therefore, I may hypothesise that both
groups may be connected within their clan origins. Finally, the Milesian‘s spiritual symbolic
ritual of the Ninth Wave, which is inscribed within Celtic myths of origin, is still performed
today in Galicia. The Ninth Wave ritual is referred to in the LGE. This fact indicates that the
LGE reports, with accurate knowledge, Milesian cultural traces that lead me to think that the
druids, responsible for the LGE, were reporting a genuine historical event, which it would
have been impossible to be aware of otherwise.
Regarding the myth theory, I suggest that it is advisable to reconsider early historical
accounts and to now re-evaluate them as valid historical narratives. Also the term myth
should be reassessed and should recover its original meaning, equating it with narrative as
opposed to its pejorative meaning which has infiltrated our society. I suggest that the early
narratives of a particular culture should be distinguished from the fictional literature of the
clan in question, instead of referring to the entire body of narratives as myth.
Finally, this investigation could usefully be further expanded, in order to properly study the
Milesian myth of the Leabhar Gabhála Éireann, which would involve, as mentioned above,
the analysis of two further chapters, and also to expand the Mythocriticism theory.
http://www.continuitas.org/texts/vazquez_ritual.pdf

[Peyrol]

So, iberians are like the british, north italians are central europeans, balkanic people are northeasterners in denial, greeks are poles, southern italians are greek and levantine, and the south french are iberoitalicmoor mongrels (all these theories according to the average aprician)...

...so, at the end of all...who are (and who is) the southern europeans?

[Dictator]

So, iberians are like the british, north italians are central europeans, balkanic people are northeasterners in denial, greeks are poles, southern italians are greek and levantine and the south french are iberoitalicmoor mongrels (all these theories according to the average aprician)...

...so, at the end of all...who are (and who is) the southern europeans?

North africans.

[Peyrol]

North africans.

Hell not, according to the anthroboards they're vandalic, so whiter than anyone of us

[awyr dywyll]

that is was very time ago to the celtic population, perhaps related with neolithic population of the atlantic zone

This is the most logical explanation of early Celts or proto-Celts spreading in western Europe,to my thinking.If you take any historical sources about Celtic expansion, in any case this expansion routed from west to east, not otherwise.

JORDANES



THE ORIGIN AND DEEDS OF THE GOTHS

(13) Cornelius also, the author of the Annals, says that in the farthest part of Britain the night gets brighter and is very short. He also says that the island abounds in metals, is well supplied with grass and is more productive in all those things which feed beasts rather than men. Moreover many large rivers flow through it, and the tides are borne back into them, rolling along precious stones and pearls. The Silures have swarthy features and are usually born with curly black hair, but the inhabitants of Caledonia have reddish hair and large loose-jointed bodies. They are like the Gauls or the Spaniards, according as they are opposite either nation. (14) Hence some have supposed that from these lands the island received its inhabitants, alluring them by its nearness.