Coexistence of Saami and Norse culture – reflected in and interpreted by Old Norse myths

[Pallantides]

Coexistence of Saami and Norse culture - reflected in and interpreted by Old Norse myths

[Anthropos]

Nonsense science, that's what it is.

Sami are not integrated with Swedes and there is hardly any 'coexistence' either, much rather something like a feud. I doubt that they are integrated with Norwegians even if Norway, unlike Sweden, did have an agenda to have them integrated since rather long, if I'm not mistaken. It is well known that Samis have at times been pushed around by Swedes, Norwegians and Finns, and this is documented (although indirectly) starting in the 16th century.

In other words, what almost anyone can understand, this 'scientific' piece 'interprets' Norse Sagas 'in the light of' modern wishes to model the past to make it seem that Samis played an active part in Scandinavian ethnogeneses, but the idea is only too transparent.

[Pallantides]

Nonsense science

I believe the opinions of Norwegian scholars and professors have more weight than that of some random Swede, but your opinion is noted.

[The Ripper]

Nonsense science, that's what it is.

Sami are not integrated with Swedes and there is hardly any 'coexistence' either, much rather something like a feud. I doubt that they are integrated with Norwegians even if Norway, unlike Sweden, did have an agenda to have them integrated since rather long, if I'm not mistaken. It is well known that Samis have at times been pushed around by Swedes, Norwegians and Finns, and this is documented (although indirectly) starting in the 16th century.

While I kind of agree what you say, I think saying that there never was co-existence (of course it depends entirely how you define this) is rather taking it to the other extreme. While not playing a part in Scandinavian ethnogenesis, they have been here much longer than the Scandinavians and inhabited the same region for a long time. This long relationship is not simply one of "feuding" or "peaceful integrtion".

[Pallantides]

Norway has the largest Sami population, 1000 years ago there were Saami living as far south as Oppland in Valdres and Lesja, I don't know if coexistence is the right word to use atleast not after Norway became a Christian nation, but the Sami have definitely had a presence in Norway.
Samer i Valdres for 1000 år siden - gammetufter funnet(In Norwegian.)


Apperantly there is even folktales from Eidfjord and Hardanger about saami living there.

"Med noen gamle halvglemte sagn er å fortelle at
Eidfjordfjellene og Hardangervidda i de eldste tider
var beboet av finner, som drev sine reinhjorder
omkring deroppe på samme vis som de gjøre det endnu
den dag i dag i Finnmarken og Finland. Disse folk har
alltid havt rykte for at øve trolldom og hekseri, og
da ikke kunde ungåes at folket i Eidfjorf kom i
adskillig berøring med dem, har dette naboskap
etterlatt spor, der er merkbare den dag i dag ved
utallige sagn og trolldom, besværgelser, åndemaninger
og liknende, det afgiver vitensbyrd oom en mørk og
fordummet overtro. Oppe på viddene havde finnene
ligget med sine besværgelser og trolldomskunster.
Finnerne på fjellet havde sin egen hemmelighetsfulle
religion, som ingen forstod." (Natur, folkeliv og
folketro i Hardanger", Haukenes s 67.)

Quick translation by me:

With a few half forgotten legends there is to be told that Eidfjordfjellene and Hardangervidda in the older days was inhabited by the Finns(that is what Norwegians called the Sami in the old days) that drove their reindeer herds like they do today in Finnmark and Finland, these people have always had a reputation for sorcery and witchery, so it was not to be avoided that the people of Eidgjord came into contact with them and this relationship has left it's traces, even today there are countless legends of witchcraft, curses and magic arts, the Finns on the mountain had their own secret religion that nobody could understand.

[Anthropos]

"Med noen gamle halvglemte sagn er å fortelle at
Eidfjordfjellene og Hardangervidda i de eldste tider
var beboet av finner, som drev sine reinhjorder
omkring deroppe på samme vis som de gjøre det endnu
den dag i dag i Finnmarken og Finland. Disse folk har
alltid havt rykte for at øve trolldom og hekseri, og
da ikke kunde ungåes at folket i Eidfjorf kom i
adskillig berøring med dem, har dette naboskap
etterlatt spor, der er merkbare den dag i dag ved
utallige sagn og trolldom, besværgelser, åndemaninger
og liknende, det afgiver vitensbyrd oom en mørk og
fordummet overtro. Oppe på viddene havde finnene
ligget med sine besværgelser og trolldomskunster.
Finnerne på fjellet havde sin egen hemmelighetsfulle
religion, som ingen forstod." (Natur, folkeliv og
folketro i Hardanger", Haukenes s 67.)

Interestingly, the quote just proves you wrong. If 'finner' refers to Sami - and this can be granted without much doubt considering that they are described in no few words exactly as Sami, and since the words Soumi and Sami (I repeat: the words) are similar enough that a confusion may have taken place in this case - then it is clear beyond any doubt whatever that they had not not 'coexisted' much with Scandinavians.

[Pallantides]

The article is about the Coexistence in pre-Christian times, the legends from Eidsfjord are from the Middle ages and later when the Sami were viewed as a pagan and heretic people, Christianity changed the Norwegians outlook on the Sami considerably, btw Finn is what the Norwegians called the Sami.

[Anthropos]

The article is about the Coexistence in pre-Christian times, the legends from Eidsfjord are from the Middle ages, Christianity changed the Norwegians outlook on the Sami considerably, btw Finn is what the Norwegians called Sami.

Come on man, use your own ability to think? For Christianity to be able to change the outlook of Norwegians on the Sami, a necessary precondition is that the two groups were distinct and separate from each other in the first place!

[Pallantides]

You can try getting your point across without hurling insults at me.
Two groups can coexiste even if they are distinict, I don't think anyone has ever made the claim that the Sami and Norse are the same people, both are two seperate distinct cultures and peoples but they did interact and sometimes even intermarried with each other.

[Anthropos]

You can try getting your point across without hurling insults at me.

What insults?

Two groups can coexiste even if they are distinict, I don't think anyone has ever made the claim that the Sami and Norse are the same people, both are two seperate distinct cultures and peoples but they did interact (A) and sometimes even intermarried with each other (B).

Argument B:

When a Norwegian man married a Sami woman, that woman was most likely integrated into the Norwegian etnicity.


Argument A:

Interaction is one thing and coexistence is something completely different. Let's say for the sake of the argument (and solely therefore) that Norwegians took some impression from encounters with Sami prior to the compostion of the Sagas. Be that as it may, it's still not a matter of 'coexistence'.