North Korea or Saudi Arabia: which is more oppressive?

[Dandelion]

Mobility in Saudi Arabia is based on gender though. It's hard to believe when a woman uses it as an argument about Saudi Arabia, but then I remember that we're comparing this country to North Korea and all becomes clearer. Internally, however, I think a North Korean woman can move more freely and more safely than a Saudi woman can. Saudi Arabia is a gender apartheid state. People in general are free to leave Saudi Arabia or move around in Saudi Arabia (even though non-muslims can't enter Mecca or Medina).

[Farah]

Mobility in Saudi Arabia is based on gender though. It's hard to believe when a woman uses it as an argument about Saudi Arabia, but then I remember that we're comparing this country to North Korea and all becomes clearer. Internally, however, I think a North Korean woman can move more freely and more safely than a Saudi woman can. Saudi Arabia is a gender apartheid state. People in general are free to leave Saudi Arabia or move around in Saudi Arabia (even though non-muslims can't enter Mecca or Medina).

Yes that's very true actually, I did find it ironic that I'm writing that as I remembered the gender issue! I was writing it from an economic point of view but I guess if we do compare it from a gendered perspective, North Korea wins in this department. I wonder now how marriage, relationships, dating..etc. is like in N. Korea. We only ever hear about the economic hardships that it kind of dehumanizes the people in an ironic way (we forget they may have normal lives in other aspects).

[Dandelion]

Here's a music clip from North Korea, looking completely normal, which is even weirder.

[Wadaad]

Anyone who says Saudi Arabia is absolutely clueless...Saudi Arabia spoils its citizens like no other. And 99% of women there have no interest in driving.

[Tooting Carmen]

Anyone who says Saudi Arabia is absolutely clueless...Saudi Arabia spoils its citizens like no other. And 99% of women there have no interest in driving.

(1) A high percentage of residents in Saudi are foreigners, who are often treated like dirt.
(2) The prohibition on driving is far from being the only injustice/restriction women there face.

[Wadaad]

(1) A high percentage of residents in Saudi are foreigners, who are often treated like dirt.
(2) The prohibition on driving is far from being the only injustice/restriction women there face.

I am aware of the (varying degrees of) mistreatment of foreigners...Its why I chose 'ctizens' in my previous post. NK treats citizens and foreigners alike, poorly. A Saudi can get his government to pay for his or her overseas education all the way to PHd levels, they will give him money to build a house when he gets married, etc...and the same thing applies to their women as long as they get approval from their husband or dad. In NK, the women would need approval to travel from the state...If I was a woman, I'd rather my male relatives be my guardian than the state.

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

I am aware of the (varying degrees of) mistreatment of foreigners...Its why I chose 'ctizens' in my previous post. NK treats citizens and foreigners alike, poorly. A Saudi can get his government to pay for his or her overseas education all the way to PHd levels, they will give him money to build a house when he gets married, etc...and the same thing applies to their women as long as they get approval from their husband or dad. In NK, the women would need approval to travel from the state...If I was a woman, I'd rather my male relatives be my guardian than the state.

not when you are a princess , your father is state and you are kept 15 years behind walls

[Lurker]

North Korea. Though Saudi Arabia does get an honorable mention for being the only state in the Middle East that never held an election. Quite a tough competition in their region and they won it.

[Dandelion]

not when you are a princess , your father is state and you are kept 15 years behind walls

Or one other - more terrible - example. Not when your guardian is an abuse uncle who frequently rapes his niece. This is very common. Such a woman is forced to endure it her entire life in Saudi Arabia. Sure Wadaad could think of that possibility too?

[Lurker]

I am aware of the (varying degrees of) mistreatment of foreigners...Its why I chose 'ctizens' in my previous post. NK treats citizens and foreigners alike, poorly. A Saudi can get his government to pay for his or her overseas education all the way to PHd levels, they will give him money to build a house when he gets married, etc...and the same thing applies to their women as long as they get approval from their husband or dad. In NK, the women would need approval to travel from the state...If I was a woman, I'd rather my male relatives be my guardian than the state.

If you're a friend of certain powerful individuals in NK you can get to meet Dennis Rodman or go to swiss schools . Everywhere there's priviledge to certain people, you just have to know the right people.