Atheism and Objectivism

**Sakis** · 08-13-2014, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by alfieb

Anyone who claims to be an atheist is lying. There's just varying degrees of agnosticism. Even a guy like Dawkins admits that he's not a true atheist, because there's always that chance in the back of his mind.

Atheism means that you don't worship a god not that you know that gods don't exist.

**alfieb** · 08-13-2014, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by Sakis

Atheism means that you don't worship a god

Not really. You can be "spiritual" and not worship a god. You can be a satanist and not worship a god. You can worship your ancestors, etc. Atheists aren't spiritual at all. They believe in science, not the paranormal or the mythological.

**Colonel Frank Grimes** · 08-13-2014, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by Solin

Can the same be said when it just comes to the existence of God.

Pretty much. I place the possibility of existence of a high power on math and reincarnation.

There is strong evidence for reincarnation. I say this with despair. The idea that I'll be reborn and that my current self will be washed away except for some residual is highly upsetting to me.

I find it difficult to believe order in the world came from nothing. Math is order. It is the key to the universe and the knife in the heart of randomness. That the world isn't as random as should be expected makes me think there is a greater mind, for lack of a better word, at work. Of course, I could come up with an argument against what I just said but at this point what I mentioned is a better argument to me.

**Unome** · 08-13-2014, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by Sakis

Atheists don't judge the world,theists do.

I find atheists to be much more judgmental, about the world and other people, than theists.

The difference is that theists are proud & vocal about judging others; atheists keep opinions to themselves and publicly deny it.

**Sakis** · 08-13-2014, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by Unome

I find atheists to be much more judgmental, about the world and other people, than theists.

The difference is that theists are proud & vocal about judging others; atheists keep opinions to themselves and publicly deny it.

Only the famous atheists may be judgmental,the everyday people that live their lives like there is no god don't care about the others.

**Insuperable** · 08-13-2014, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by Colonel Frank Grimes

Pretty much.

I don't think that belief in the existence of smurfs is a decent comparison to the belief in the existence of God. By God people assume an uncaused eternal Creator who created everything including smurfs and fairies if they exist. Human mind has a power to postulate such Creator and it is a hypothesis which it seems nobody can confirm nor reject. In that sense we all should be agnostics.

I place the possibility of existence of a high power on math and reincarnation. I find it difficult to believe order in the world came from nothing. Math is order. It is the key to the universe and the knife in the heart of randomness. That the world isn't as random as should be expected makes me think there is a greater mind, for lack of a better word, at work. Of course, I could come up with an argument against what I just said but at this point what I mentioned is a better argument to me.

Many mathematicians would agree what you say here about math and would believe that the world was created by God and those who are not religious would say the same about math so I don't see the point of bringing the math into this. Various people have their various reasons for the way they see the world and everything else in this regard.
Also you shouldn't base your thinking on what you find very upsetting and similar thoughts and feelings, that is for theists.

**~~Immortal Technique~~** · 08-13-2014, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by Solin

I don't think that belief in the existence of smurfs is a decent comparison to the belief in the existence of God. By God people assume an uncaused eternal Creator who created everything including smurfs and fairies if they exist. Human mind has a power to postulate such Creator and it is a hypothesis which it seems nobody can confirm nor reject. In that sense we all should be agnostics.

Agree with my homie.

Many mathematicians would agree what you say here about math and would believe that the world was created by God and those who are not religious would say the same about math so I don't see the point of bringing the math into this. Various people have their various reasons for the way they see the world and everything else in this regard.
Also you shouldn't base your judgement on what you find very upsetting and similar thoughts and feelings, that is for theists.

**Sakis** · 08-13-2014, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by Solin

I don't think that belief in the existence of smurfs is a decent comparison to the belief in the existence of God. By God people assume an uncaused eternal Creator who created everything including smurfs and fairies if they exist. Human mind has a power to postulate such Creator and it is a hypothesis which it seems nobody can confirm nor reject. In that sense we all should be agnostics.

And what happens if some may say that the smurfs are gods and created the universe.Dead end.

**Manifest Destiny** · 08-13-2014, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by KeinMitleid

I agree. But I see your religious views are listed as agnostic. So in other words you base your spirituality on unsurity.

That's the most logical approach. Theism and atheism are, as he pointed out, based on faith.

**Manifest Destiny** · 08-13-2014, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by Colonel Frank Grimes

I'm not an atheist but your argument is the equivalent of saying I'm taking a leap of faith when I say Zeus and the other ancient Greek gods don't exist. There has to be either evidence or a logical argument for a belief not to be tossed away as nonsense.

The argument for atheism is basically, "If I can't see it, it can't possibly exist." You don't see a logical problem with that view?