Swedes are non-Nordic

[arcticwolf]

The dark-haired woman on the right side is half Norwegian, half German.

I see.

[Peikko]

2. I am correct. Just look at this sample of non-cherrypicked Swedish Athletes:

Attachment 50295

Where did you take the pictures? One of them is from Team Finland, not from Team Sweden.

[Eusocial]

Everyone talks about Scandinavian countries being some uber-Nordic place. Based on my personal observations of Swedish people, this is my estimate of their composition:

10% Nordic
20% Nordic mixed with other elements
50% Baltid or pred. Baltid
10% Alpine or Med types
5% Lappid / Ladogan / Mongoloid
5% Brunn / Borreby / Upper Paleolithic

I've never been but maybe. Nordid an anthro phenotype, not a race in the sense of nationality. I noticed lots of flattened occuput watching the tv show "Vikings" which puts them in a Borreby range IMO. You call it more Baltid but they are similar. Borreby is basically unreduced Baltid without Lapppud element. But otherwise close.

[Stimpy]

1. The term "Nordid" was invented by Egan von Eickstedt and was only used by him, while most other authors used the term "Nordic" to refer to the race.

2. I am correct. Just look at this sample of non-cherrypicked Swedish Athletes:

Attachment 50295

Notice how most of them are East Baltic or show East Baltic influence. However, this is a sample of ATHLETES, and is thus not representative of Sweden as a whole. In a selection of athletes, Nordics will be over-represented, while East Baltics, Alpines and Mongoloids will be under-represented. Given that, it is reasonable to assume that Nordics are but a small minority in Sweden.

More non-cherrypicked Swedish athletes that I found in the ''Swedish People'' thread on here. There's more group photos there.





There is some very minor east-baltid input in many Swedes and a few extremely rare relatively pure east baltids. NordoCMs/Tronders is still the most common phenotype is Sweden, followed by relatively pure Nordids and CMs THEN followed by Baltids who make up about 10-15%.

[Peikko]

I've never been but maybe. Nordid an anthro phenotype, not a race in the sense of nationality. I noticed lots of flattened occuput watching the tv show "Vikings" which puts them in a Borreby range IMO. You call it more Baltid but they are similar. Borreby is basically unreduced Baltid without Lapppud element. But otherwise close.

There's like one Swedish actor in that show. Seriously, man

[Amud]

They are indeed pred nordid mixed with native mesolithic element.
Propably:
10% Borreby
15% faelid-bruenn
20% pure nordid
30% troender-nordic/mesolithic mix
10% baltid
5% uralid
10% atlantomed (scandinavian variant called ''tydal'')

Your estimations of Upper Paleolithic are way too high. They are characterized by extremely large dimensions of the head and face and extremely rugged, protomorphic features. The vast, vast majority of people anywhere are nothing close to Coon's Brunn and Borreby types. You're also forgetting that there are Alpines (also called the Strandid type) although they are not that common, they are still an element. And finally, you're underestimating the amount of Baltids. Did you look at the athletes I showed? MOST of them are Baltid or mixed Baltid. The East Baltic type is clearly the MAJORITY element in Sweden. I'm not just saying this because I want it to be true, I'm saying it because I looked at many pictures of Swedes and came to the conclusions that they are mostly East Baltic.

I think people here have a mistaken idea of what the average Swede looks like. In truth, the average Swede has a broad forehead, a broad, round, flat face, a short, concave nose, rounded and projecting cheekbones, and an infantile appearance. If you look at pictures of regular Swedes (ie. not cherrypicked models and actors) you will see that this is the case.

It is easily seen from these composites of the average Swede:

[Swedenborg]

I think people here have a mistaken idea of what the average Swede looks like. In truth, the average Swede has a broad forehead, a broad, round, flat face, a short, concave nose, rounded and projecting cheekbones, and an infantile appearance. If you look at pictures of regular Swedes (ie. not cherrypicked models and actors) you will see that this is the case.

Tell me sir, as you are some kind of self-proclaimed expert on how my people look like. Have you ever been in Sweden? As you are referring to how regular Swedes look like.

That 50% of us would be East Baltid is the most delusional thing I've heard on a very long time. A majority of Swedes fit into a Nordid -> CM range with most of us being a mix of the both. Not even in Gällivare/Malmberget where I lived some years ago 50% of the population was East Baltid.

[Amud]

Tell me sir, as you are some kind of self-proclaimed expert on how my people look like. Have you ever been in Sweden? As you are referring to how regular Swedes look like.

That 50% of us would be East Baltid is the most delusional thing I've heard on a very long time. A majority of Swedes fit into a Nordid -> CM range with most of us being a mix of the both. Not even in Gällivare/Malmberget where I lived some years ago 50% of the population was East Baltid.

Again, look at the pictures of Swedes that I posted, or the ones that Stimpy posted. You will see that most of them have broad foreheads, broad faces, and concave noses, just like the Swedish composites that I posted. I have not been to Sweden, so I concede it is possible that the pictures I have seen don't represent Swedes as a whole and there's a bunch of Nordics there that I'm just not seeing in pictures. However, based on the many pictures I have seen of Swedes, the majority fall into Coon's East Baltic category (meaning, according to Coon, a mix of Nordic, Borreby, and a slight Ladogan influence) with Nordics being a minority element. If you look at Coon's East Baltic page, it's clear that the majority of Swedes would fit on the page easily.

Also, please note that the way you may be used to seeing the term "East Baltid" is false. Most people here use it to refer to Ladogans or mixed Lappid types, but that is incorrect.

[Harkonnen]

The two men are East Baltic. The two women do look Nordic, but they are atypical.

Hallstatt is first and foremost a metrical type characterised fex by dolicocephaly and a narrow jaw, with oval face form. So if benny a is dolico he could very well fit the hallstatt type. Remember here is the decription of hallstatt type

The typical Hallstatt Nordid is a leptosome - tall and lean, with relatively long legs and a short body, moderately broad shoulders and relatively short arms. The impression is of a long and slender type, and corpulence is particularly rare. Sexual dimorphism is not significant.

The face is oval to slightly rhomboid in shape, with a narrow, somewhat sloping forehead - but much less so than is the case with the Keltic type - and browridges which are present but rather weakly developed. The nasion depression is moderate, while the nose, which is typically parallel in slope with the forehead, is mostly straight or slightly convex, with a high incidence of wavy forms. The nasal index is leptorrhine, and there is usually a noticeable transition from the nasal skeleton to the soft parts of the nose.

The lower jaw is long and deep with a well-developed chin, and the distance from the lower teeth to the chin is often remarkable. The gonial angles are compressed and usually not visible. The malars are small and typically flattened in front, and the zygomatic arches bend outward to some extent. The mouth is small, and the lips rather thin.

The cephalic index mean of the modern Hallstatt Nordid is low mesocephalic (C.I. ca. 77), although dolichocephaly is not uncommon among individuals. The head, when seen from above, looks like a long oval, somewhat flattened on both sides. When seen from behind, the impression is of a rhomboid or rectangle. The occiput is curved or projecting, and flattening is rare or nonexistent.

The skin, which is a pinkish white, is typically fine-textured and thin. This thinness has the effect of pronouncing the bony parts of the face and making the muscles of the body stand out in relief. The bones of the Hallstatt Nordid, and of the Nordid group as a whole, are small in comparison to the Cro-Magnid varieties.

The hair color of the Hallstatt Nordid is characteristically and almost exclusively blond, with ash-blond shades in one-third to one-half of the cases, the remainder having golden blond to medium brown shades. Rufosity is virtually absent. There is a small brunet minority that is anthropologically Nordid, but aberrant pigmentation does not necessarily indicate non-Nordid admixture.

The Nordid eye is typically light-mixed blue, with a large pure light-eyed minority. Here also there is a small dark-pigmented minority.

I bolded the parts that work exceedingly well for Benny

If you check the hallstatt examples http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/rg-hallstatt.html you will notice thatmany of them noses are not particularily large and few have upturned forms.

Coon's East Baltic is a square-faced robust 'cm-type' with very broad square jaw, (If you check Coons stats you'll notice that Finnics have the broadest jaws in Europe) which Benny does not fit well (well neither does the other guy)

The bigonial diameter of the Finns is very broad gives the Finnish face the square appearance for which it is noted...
they are at the same time less typically East Baltic in the Finnish sense in the total contour of the face, for more elliptical and fewer rectangular shapes are found among them...

(Quotes from TROE)

[Amud]

Hallstatt is first and foremost a metrical type characterised fex by dolicocephaly and a narrow jaw, with ovalface form. So if benny a is dolico he could very well fit the hallstatt type. Remember here is the decription of hallstatt type





I bolded the parts that work exceedingly well for Benny

If you check the hallstatt examples http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/rg-hallstatt.html you will notice thatmany of them noses are not particularily large and few have upturned forms.

Coon's East Baltic is a square-faced robust 'cm-type' with very broad square jaw, (If you check Coons stats you'll notice that Finnics have the broadest jaws in Europe) which Benny does not fit well (well neither does the other guy)


(Quotes from TROE)

East Baltics don't have to have a broad jaw. Only three of Coon's examples even had metric data available, but they range in bigonial from 104-124. It's a highly variable type.

I understand that this guy has many Nordic features, which is to be expected. Most Swedes do have some Nordic influence, it's just that the vast majority are not pure nordic but are partially or fully East Baltic.



Notice how he is clearly euryproscopic, and his forehead is so broad that it would be almost impossible for him to be dolichocephalic unless he had a longer head than 99.9% of the population. Those figures alone preclude him from being classed as Nordic.

Bjorn is another story. His facial morphology shows clear Lappid influence.

Bjorn:

A Lappid: