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Thread: preliminary Neolithic Balkans Y-DNA results(Starcevo culture) and other/ISBA 2014 symposium

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    Default preliminary Neolithic Balkans Y-DNA results(Starcevo culture) and other/ISBA 2014 symposium

    From Andrew Millard

    International Society of Genetic Genealogy (ISOGG)

    43 mins · Edited ·

    I'm at the International Symposium on Biomolecular Archaeology and I thought some here would like summaries of the human DNA papers (abstracts with author details are available at https://ipna.unibas.ch/archgen/isba14/) .

    Maria Spyrou presented on the 8th-10th century AD site of Venosa in southern Italy. They recovered 22 full mitogenomes representing 17 haplogroups. This is remarkably diverse, but not statistically different from modern populations from Europe, N Africa & the Near East except Algeria, Basque & Saudi Arabia. Conclusion: today's European mitochondrial diversity dates back to at least the 8th century.

    Anna Szécsényi-Nagy presented data from 9 Y chromosomal samples (25 SNPs defiing major haplogroups) and 84 mitochondrial HVS-I DNA profiles from Mesolithic, Neolithic Starčevo and LBK sites (7-6th millennium BC) from Hungary and Croatia. For mtDNA the Neolithic haplogroup frequencies differ from northern European hunter gather-populations but they are similar in the spread to the northern, slightly later Linear Band Keramik sites, with slight differences in frequencies. The Y-chromosome data showed a high frequency of haplogroup G, and closest affinity to Caucasus & Sardinians in modern populations.

    "Roy the slides were moving pretty quickly so my notes are incomplete. I don't think there were Mesolithic Gs. For the 7 Starcevo samples I only got as far as noting F* G2a G2a2b I2a1 before things moved on. There were others. There is a paper in press in Proceedings of the British Academy vol.198."


    Helena Malmstrom reported mtDNA HVS-I sequences from Funnel Beaker (TRB) & Pitted Ware Cultures. The PWC hunter-gatheres differ in haplogroup frequency from farmers but are similar to Mesolithic huntergatherers elsewhere in Europe. The TRB farmers are similar to central European LBK farmers, but both differ from Iberian farmers. Conclusion: migration is part of Neolithisation

    Karonla Kirsanow presented on the origins of depigmented skin and eyes in Europeans using samples from the Upper Palaeolithic to the Bronze Age. The data show that depigmentation alleles arose and were common but not universal well before agriculture arrived in Europe, but the eye & skin colour changes were independent as there are individuals with all possible combinations of derived/ancestral skin/eye alleles. There is a mtDNA division between east and west Europe which is also reflected in depigmentation with a higher frequency of depigmented skin in the east and depigmented eyes in the west. There were high frequencies of skin depigmentation alleles by the Bronze Age which agrees with previous identification of these markers as under recent strong selection. There is a general trend to depigmentation over time. Demographic processes must be important but it is not clear what is driving the selection of depigmentation.

    ISBA 2014

    ipna.unibas.ch
    I decided to bold the most interesing fragments.

    Last edited by Artek; 08-31-2014 at 10:12 PM.
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    Fascinating stuff thanks for sharing.

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    Very interesting! Thanks.

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    I wonder what are those "others" and what were those "mesolithics" apart from I2a1,that is most likely. Out of 9 samples in total, we have just 4 mentioned! Still we have room for another G, another I2, maybe an EV-13(if it wasn't Cardial Ware-specific)


    Also the study of Malmstrom on mtDNA sheds a light on a different maternal subset of Iberian samples, when compared to LBK and TRB. More of an H, in this case? We will see soon.


    And another subject - depigmentation.
    ...the eye & skin colour changes were independent as there are individuals with all possible combinations of derived/ancestral skin/eye alleles.
    Light skin with dark eyes and dark skin with light eyes? We have seen it before
    There is a mtDNA division between east and west Europe which is also reflected in depigmentation with a higher frequency of depigmented skin in the east and depigmented eyes in the west
    That is intriguing, because i thought there was relative uniformity within mtDNA from that period.
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    UPDATE! I have a preprint and full set of y-chromosomes
    http://biorxiv.org/content/early/201...-text.pdf+html

    Complete SNP profiles - 2 males from Transdanubian LBK:
    -I1-M253
    - G2a2b

    Complete SNP profiles-7 Starcevo Culture males:
    2x G2a2b-S126
    1x G2a-P15
    1x I2a1-P37.2
    3x F*

    Incomplete SNP profiles of 8 males:
    Starcevo Culture:
    3x G2a2b-S126
    2x G2a-P15
    1x I-M170

    Transdanubian LBK:
    1x G2a2b-S126
    1x F*
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    Very interesting stuff, glad that geographical gap has been partially filled in now.

    Also finally glad to see an I1 in there, looks like some of it at least was 'picked up' by farmers in SE Europe?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackson View Post
    Very interesting stuff, glad that geographical gap has been partially filled in now.

    Also finally glad to see an I1 in there, looks like some of it at least was 'picked up' by farmers in SE Europe?
    I think so. Of course I1 wasn't present alongside hunters-gatherers from Motala at 6000 BC(it lacked 2 or 3 SNPs) but it could've been present at 5000 BC or later as a part of Ertebolle culture or somewhere else and picked by farmers.
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    I1 was thought to only be 5,000 or so years old. I'm not sure the exact age of the example they've found, but from context it should be 7000-8000. Where does that leave the other groups?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kale View Post
    I1 was thought to only be 5,000 or so years old. I'm not sure the exact age of the example they've found, but from context it should be 7000-8000. Where does that leave the other groups?
    I guess that are y-STR-based estimations. SNP-based estimations are much more credible but I don't know such estimations for an I1. I1 project bases on un-professional nomenclature like "I1-AS"(like all of I1 was Anglo-Saxon, then all R1a is Slavic)
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    Do you know how we could get more info from people who were there? I emailed one of the guys who worked on the pigmentation one like a month ago and got nothing back. I'm existed to learn they tested mtDNA too, and from Upper Palaeolithic-bronze age Europe in the east and west. The summary on the pigmentation results is no surprise, because we already learned this through Mesolithic and Neolithic samples. Known alleles for light skin existed in the Upper Palaeolithic but were not dominate(more like a minority) like they are today in west Eurasia meaning they probably had dark skin, and WHG were mostly blue eyed. I wish they checked for hair color to, because both the hunters and farmers seem to have been uniformly dark haired while many Europeans today have light hair.

    There was probably a continuation of the same pigmentation in Europe, central Asia, and west Asia from the Upper Palaeolithic-Neolithic. ~15,000YBP mostly ANE person AG2 had rs1426654 A/A like Motala12, and ~24,000YBP ANE person MA1 had rs1426654 G/G, like LA Brana-1-Loschbour-Ajv58, meaning WHG and ANE hunters had the same alleles for skin color and that known light skin mutations go back way before the Last ice age. Europe's first farmers had the same alleles as modern west Asians, meaning west Asian's ancestors probably have had the same pigmentation going back to the begging of farming or even earlier. Light eyes could have first become popular in WHG as far back as the Last Ice age, and stayed that way for thousands and thousands of years.

    It seems the first change in west Eurasian pigmentation since the Upper Palaeolithic occurred in Europe during the bronze age. Pigmentation seems to have been very selected in Europe since the Neolithic. First you have near eastern farmer light skin take over Euro hunter dark skin, which creates the type of pig we see in Sardinia and southwest Europe today. Then next the skin became even lighter, and Euro hunter blue eyes became attached to light hair which became popular and wasn't even really in the equation before, and that creates the type of pig we see in northern Europe today. I think the north Euro-type pigmentation spread by selection not population movement. The Indo Iranians and Tocherians had it even though they had a totally differnt genetic makeup than any modern northern Europeans, and a very similar genetic makeup to copper age Yamna and Catacomb people who were darker than west Asians. Proving in my opinion it's not a genetic thing it was just selected for by many differnt people.

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