Scots voting no to independence would be an astonishing act of self-harm

[Graham]

[Damião de Góis]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Manuel_Barroso
Look at Barroso - the unelected by the people President of the European Commission communist profile on wikipedia (link above):
"Barroso's political activity began in his late teens, during the Estado Novo regime in Portugal, before the Carnation Revolution of 25 April 1974. In his college days, he was one of the leaders of the underground Maoist MRPP (Reorganising Movement of the Proletariat Party, later PCTP/MRPP, Communist Party of the Portuguese Workers/Revolutionary Movement of the Portuguese Proletariat). In an interview with the newspaper Expresso, he said that he had joined MRPP to fight the only other student body movement, also underground, which was controlled by the Portuguese Communist Party."

Are you debating with me whether Durão Barroso is a communist or not? Where are you from?

[Raikaswinþs]

my biggest questions to yes and no camps:

first the Yes:

- what is the timeline after YES vote victory to start with the referendums on the form of state (whether we want to be a market-based economy with strong liberties and direct democracy like the Swiss or perhaps a more centralised one with a bigger governments and less freedom but more social security, like the Swedes). So far I haven't heard any information about this. Almost as if a YES vote basically gives Salmond and co. enough power to establish a country however the SNP thinks best without even asking the people.....I hope I'm wrong.

- When after yes do we get to choose whether we keep the Monarchy or Not

- Do we get to vote on currency? keeping the pound is a really bad idea. Joining the Euro isn't much better. Obviously, if this is about independence, we will need our own currency, so we don't go the same way the PIGS went when the next financial crisis come (and it WILL come, sooner than later). Of course having our own currency has it's own share of problems, but an independent nation shouldn't have its monetary policy dictated by somebody else. Pretty much every Eurozone country can tell you that today...

- Do we get to vote on NATO? I mean, what is the point of going through the whole mess of moving Trident 20 miles south of the border only to be nevertheless subscribed to a nuclear alliance? That contradiction (Trident No- NATO of-cours-we-wont-even-ask)

-Do we get to vote on EU? It sounds really dumb to go through the whole pain of creating a new state only to surrender it to Brussels 2 weeks after. Wouldn't bilateral treaties and perhaps Schengen be more than enough? if Norway/Swizterland are really our models...what's with the EU obsession?

-So OK, we sell a lot of whiskey. But pretty much everything else we have are commodities that fluctuate greatly. Tourism? you need to do a great investment to keep people interested, and it really isn't an industry that will make the working class any wealthier, as pretty much everyone can tell you, even here in Festival Town. Oil? Reserves are a lot smaller than previously estimated. Admitedly we are no Dubaj. And that Oil Fund will work for as long as there's oil. A thing I have noticed is that the YES campaigners have changed their use of the Oild card HUGELY over time. From pivotal in the beginning to "just a bonus" now. Well if oil is just the bonus then what's the core of the steak? Financial services? as in Standard Life, Santander, RBS? As in the same people that led the West to the worst crisis since the great depression? Well..at least they have dropped that "we contribute 9.5% to the UK tax but we only get back 9.3%!! Westminster ens roba!!! we will be oh so rich when we get our 0.2% back!

coming next: questions for the NO camp. give me another 10 mins.

[Bloodnigger]

Scotland should be independent. Its up to scots to decide, but staying in Britain will not preserve their identity.

The issue is not their identity but the current financial shitstorm that's coming. Scotland would be able to weather it if they secede, much like they were saved from a similar situation back when the union was first formed.

[♥ Lily ♥]

Are you debating with me whether Durão Barroso is a communist or not? Where are you from?

I'm referring to President Jose Barosso who Nigel Farage said to US news shows that Barosso is a communist. I'm English and have to live under President Barosso's dictatorship of the EUSSR

[Raikaswinþs]

Questions to the no

- Is there a timeline for that devo-max thingie or is it just last-minute bribery, a definitely-maybe aiming to pray on undecided voters who fear either option looks grim?

- That 2017 EU referendum..if the English vote out and the Scots in, do we get to go our own way then?

- How will Scotland guarantee pensions/tuition fees/nhs when Westminster asks for more and more cuts to preserve the health of the financial dogs of The City?

- Do we get to discuss the possibility of becoming a federation?

[♥ Lily ♥]

Are you going to dig up every thread on the topic and flood it with your crap? Your UKIP ilk would still be against independence regardless of whether or not Scotland wanted to join the EU. It's just a pretense you're using because you've run out of arguments.

Let's be candid here. I know your type. Scottish independence doesn't appeal to your nationalist vanity, so you're against it. You keep repeating these things like "50% of Scotland is on welfare". If that's the case, why are you going through every thread on the subject and throwing a temper tantrum? Don't you want to be free of that Scottish "burden"?

You see how little sense it makes? You're powerless and hypocritical. People like you only increase the number of those who will vote yes for numerous reasons I've explained on the English Independence thread.

"Nationalist type"... do you mean Scottish Nationalism or Europe Nationalism? You're powerless under the EU and hypocritical to call others as nationalists when you want Scotland to be controlled by the EU nationalist big government dictatorship.

Look I don't care what a nasty fascist swine and imbecile like you says. I want Scotland to vote yes and I've been excited about it for years. I'm not in a 'temper tantrum', just annoyed that they say they want to be an 'EU controlled state' instead of saying they want to be an 'independent nation'.

Clearly you didn't you read my last reply to you on the other thread explaining that I hope they vote yes.

But it's just stupid that the UK is currently governed by Brussels who makes most of the laws for the EU states, so Scotland will remain powerless on staying controlled as an EU state. They're already an EU controlled state of the EU dictatorship (the fourth reich).

It's really not that difficult to understand. I repeat things when they're just not sinking in.

England will be independent and able to make our own laws on leaving the EU. True independence is on offer to people who live in England with Nigel Farage and UKIP - and UKIP topped the polls this year which was fantastic for both UKIP and England.

Alex Salmond is not offering true independence to people who live in Scotland if their laws continue to be made in the Brussels Parliament as an EU governed state.

[Aunt Hilda]

that's actually very important. Pity the yes campaign cant talk about it.

[Graham]

Btw I'm proud that both Yes and no have mostly been civil. I mean there has been the odd incident. But for a campaign this big, to be this peaceful makes me proud to be Scottish, even if it's a no or a yes.

I hope it also stays that way... I promise I'll be nice if it's no.

that's actually very important. Pity the yes campaign cant talk about it.

The BBC has been a joke to be honest. If anything Scotland should try and have more smaller banks to limit any potential damage. They're a curse if anything. I'd be happy for them to register down south, even if it means the loss of tax.

[Neon Knight]

Let's not kid ourselves that the U.K. of England/Britain & Northern Ireland will suddenly become an ecomonic and democratic dreamland without Scotland; we have the potential but our so-called democracy is a farce, our education sucks and we have one of the most unequal societies in the West. Oh, and our precious countryside continues to be destroyed at an alarming rate in the name of economic growth and a ridiculously high population level.

Anyway, this is what people in England think: