Should Republika Srpska secede from BiH and join Serbia?

[Peterski]

This is what im talking about, ukrainians want to oppress rusyns thats why they deny the rusyn identity. I have talked with many rusyn about it in Budapest, and they said many rusyn are afraid of ukrainian nationalists that's why officially they consider themselves ukrainian, but rusyns are proud of their ethnicity in general.

What exactly is the difference between Rusyns and Ukrainians? As far as I know it is only in political views - Rusyns consider themselves part of the Russian nation (pro-Moscow and against Independent Ukraine) while Ukrainians of course support independent Ukraine.

Rusyns existed not only in Zakarpattia. The Polish census of 1931 also counted Ukrainians and Rusyns as two separate groups in areas of Former Eastern Poland which are now West Ukraine.

Ukrainian censuses don't recognize Rusyns as Vozd wrote.

[Peterski]

Hungary probably has more liberal citizenship laws. Rusyns can't apply for Polish citizenship because their land wasn't part of Poland and their ancestors didn't have Polish citizenship.

Actually Polish census of 1931 counted 1,219,647 people as Rusyns.

That Polish census also counted 707,088 people as Poleshuks:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poleshuks

^^^
Now they are counted as 14 in Belarus and 9 in Ukraine, total 23 people.

It seems Rusyns melted into Ukrainians and Poleshuks melted mostly into Belarusians.

[Blondie]

I'm afraid that, AFAIK, Alsatian Germans are totally Frenchified by now and no longer identify as Germans or speak German (except for few old people). Rothaer will probably confirm this.

I have heard about it. But the french government must support them to find their german roots again. Danube swabians were also victims of magyarization, but the Orbán government support the local german minority. The number of danube swabians is growing year by year, and we are in the hungarian parlament too.

Transylvanian Hungarians are an enclave surrounded from all sides by Romanians, so also it is hardly possible for them to join Hungary (unless you want a connection only by airplanes and possibly by an extraterritorial railway and highway).

It's not impossible, because we are in EU. Szeklerland can be part of Hungary as an enclave.

Ostrobothnian Swedes and Vojvodian Hungarians are both a dying species AFAIK, they are not majority anywhere.

I have never said that Vojvodina must return back to Hungary, i have talked about only the hungarian populated settlements, and you can find these near the serbian-hungarian border. Every hungarian in the Carpathian Basin live near the border except szeklers.

So if there are let say 50% Rusyns and 50% Ukrainians in Zakarpattia, how Hungary would convince 500.000 Ukrainians to accept Hungary and betray Ukraine?
But most likely there are many more Ukrainians than Rusyns in region.

These "ukrainians" are ukrainized rusyns in the reality. The ukrainization policy affected not only on rusyns, but hungarians, poles, russians too. We must help them to find their original rusyn identity again.

[Blondie]

What exactly is the difference between Rusyns and Ukrainians?

Don't you learn history?

There are different theories to explain Rusyn origins.[29] According to Paul Robert Magocsi, the origin of the present-day Carpatho-Rusyns is complex and not exclusively related to the Kievan Rus'. The ancestors were the early Slavs whose movement to the Danubian Basin was influenced by the Huns and Pannonian Avars between the 5th and 6th centuries, the White Croats who lived on both slopes of the Carpathians and built many hill-forts in the region including Uzhhorod ruled by the mythical ruler Laborec, the Rusyns of Galicia and Podolia, and Vlachian shepherds of Transylvania.[30] It is thought that the Croats were part of the Antes tribal polity who migrated to Galicia in the 3rd-4th century, under pressure by invading Huns and Goths.[31][32][33] George Shevelov also considered a connection with East Slavic tribes, more specifically, the Hutsuls, and possibly Boykos, argued to be the descendants of the Ulichs who were not native in the region.[34] As the region of the Ukrainian Carpathians, including Zakarpattia and Prykarpattia, has since the Early Middle Ages been inhabited by the tribes of Croats,[e] in Ukrainian encyclopedias and dictionaries, and the Great Russian Encyclopedia, the Rusyns are generally considered to be the descendants of the White Croats.[f

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusyns#Origins

The ukrainian government don't recognize rusyns because its part of ukrainization policy. I think the rusyn self identity does matter and not what Kiev says about them.

[Peterski]

Danube swabians were also victims of magyarization

I don't think Alsatian Germans were victims of Frenchification - rather, they voluntarily Frenchified themselves IIRC.

These "ukrainians" are ukrainized rusyns in the reality.

What is actually the difference between Rusyns and Ukrainians? As far as I know it was only about political views.

Originally all Ukrainians were called Rusyns (or Ruthenians) - the name "Ukrainians" is a rather new name.

It's not impossible, because we are in EU. Szeklerland can be part of Hungary as an enclave.

In such case also the Polish-majority territory stretching roughly from Grodno to Daugavpils should be independent:

https://i.imgur.com/zmMGQSE.jpg



^^^
Actually by the end of the USSR's existence Moscow considered creating "East Polish Soviet Socialist Republic" there.

[Dušan]

But Bosnian division on ethncity is higher, its give to ethnicits more indepedence rather to territories (Croats for example don't even have own entity, and in both entitites all 3 nations are constitutive anyway) Bosnia have 3 preseidents (to represent each nation) with veto right, Council of nation in each entity (to ensure that each nation protect its rights) etc. There is no cases such a Bosnia in other countries, Belgium have some similiarities but still different.

According to the Dayton Agreement, the two entities - Republika Srpska and the Muslim-Croat Federation - are likely to have the highest degree of autonomy in Europe.

The problem is that the Dayton Agreement has been violated for years, and many competencies have been transferred to a non-functional common level.
Republika Srpska is now struggling to regain all its competencies.

[Peterski]

Don't you learn history?

But my point here is that all of Ukrainians were originally called Rusyns or Ruthenians. The name "Ukrainians" did not exist!

And I don't think that there is a genetic difference between Carpathian Rusyns and Carpathian Ukrainians in the same area.

The text you quoted is exclusively about highlanders. So basically Rusyns = Highland Ukrainians?

Originally, Lowland Ukrainians were also called Rusyns.

Today on the northern side of the Carpathians there are many highlanders, but only Zakarpattia is claimed to be Rusyn ???

[StonyArabia]

Yes. Serbs should have the right to self determination and freedom

[Peterski]

The difference between Rusyns and Ukrainians might be like between Highland Scots and Lowland Scots.

Except that there is much less of a linguistic difference.

The difference is the rusyn as ethnicity was born inside the Hungarian Kingdom, the rusyn identity is connecting to the hungarian statehood, history and everything.

It wasn't born inside the Hungarian Kingdom, Rusyn (also Ruthenian) is simply the original name for all Non-Russian East Slavs (Ukrainians, Belarusians, etc.).

The term was born in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (or even earlier).

[Blondie]

I don't think Alsatian Germans were victims of Frenchification

It was, because Paris didn't give autonomy for them, their goal was the assimilation. The medieval France was such multiethnic like the Hungarian Kingdom, the reason why the country is almost pure french (i mean the white natives) is the assimilation policy, what is failed in Hungary.

What is actually the difference between Rusyns and Ukrainians? As far as I know it was only about political views.

Political thing? Then why they have different dialect and why they don't identify themselves ukrainians? The rusyn ethnic identity was formed inside Hungary, unlike the ukrainian which is connecting to the Kievan Rus. In 1848 revolution rusyns supported the hungarian government even against the russian invaders too and they have resisted against the ukrainian invaders:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemko_Republic