Ireland vs Great Britain

[Óttar]

Notice how I have abstained from this poll. It's too simplistic.

[Grace O'Malley]

Edmund Burke was at least half native Irish since his mother was an indigenous Irish catholic, his fathers origins are unknown since its not been possible to determine whether he was a convert or not, so he could be full native Irish or close to it, but he is at least half.

Burke was born in Dublin, Ireland. His mother Mary, née Nagle (c. 1702–1770), was a Roman Catholic who hailed from a déclassé County Cork family and a cousin of the Catholic educator Nano Nagle whereas his father Richard (died 1761), a successful solicitor, was a member of the Church of Ireland. It remains unclear whether this is the same Richard Burke who converted from Catholicism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Burke

He most probably was fully Irish. Some Irish converted to the Church of Ireland. Burke is an Irish surname. Many O'Neill's converted and people did this to hold on their land.

[Grace O'Malley]

The English went from living in a cramped corner of a no-name Island to making that Island the most important one on earth, dominating effectively the entire worlds population, and directly ruling over more of the earths surface than anyone else.

So now let's hear it for what the Irish did.

One of the places they invaded was Ireland where they discriminated against the majority of the population. I'm baffled why people think it is like vs like? One of the things the Irish did was gain their independence. It is like comparing Wales vs England. Irish are good at diplomacy and also at peacekeeping and they are respected in many corners of the world. People also know they were colonised so it gives them more leverage with countries that have a similar history. While Britain was a major colonial power the Irish have had a big influence in countries like the US and Australia. They Irish for such a small country are very well known and don't have many enemies. But comparing them to their much more larger and more powerful neighbour is baffling. Britain for example is one of the most powerful nations in the world. They had one of the most powerful Empires in history in which Ireland was also a part. People forget Ireland has only been independent for 100 years.

[Grace O'Malley]

It's politically incorrect for them but the Irish could take more ownership and pride in their contribution to the Empire, regardless of their overall antipathy. They were always overrepresented in the military, and especially so if you include Anglo-Irish. Their contribution to the establishment of the Australian colonies is also well appreciated. It's the same with Scottish nationalists, they've made the political choice to divorce themselves from their own (great) history and leading role in it, which is a shame.

People forget the Irish contribution in spite of the depredations but no one is going to take pride in being colonised. Also if anyone reads Irish history there is a lot to be angry about. I will say that most Irish and British today see each other as close neighbours with a very intertwined history. I think the Irish have come to terms with the past. There is a lot of close cooperation between Britain and Ireland. I do agree it is odd that people divorce the Irish contributions to the British Empire forgetting that Ireland was part of the UK and only became a republic in 1949.

One thing I would say is that the Irish culture is much stronger than the English culture but that is the case for the Welsh and Scots as well. The Celtic Fringe has a much stronger culture.

I don't even know what is so specific about English culture so if anyone can answer that it would be appreciated. The English though have given the world soccer and rugby for instance. Ireland has their own Gaelic games i.e. Gaelic football, hurling and camogie. So another thing which is admirable is how much of the Irish culture the Irish were able to hang on to despite the strong incentives to become West Brits.

[Grace O'Malley]

When it comes to the Irish the Americans and Australians almost seem like they are high on crack cocaine in their assessments and romantic ideas about the Irish.

Europeans tend to be more sober in their appraisals they know that Ireland could never reach the heights of England and Germany under any conditions deep down inside.

How many other countries would have reached the heights of England or Germany? Sometimes I wonder if you are a created persona.

[TSR3226]

I feel that UK has contributed more than Ireland to the world, even proportionately. A more interesting question would be Netherlands vs UK. I feel like the Dutch people could produce/produced the superior civilization if compared. Just an impression.

[Grace O'Malley]

I feel that UK has contributed more than Ireland to the world, even proportionately. A more interesting question would be Netherlands vs UK. I feel like the Dutch people could produce/produced the superior civilization if compared. Just an impression.

I think Britain has contributed much more than the Dutch. Anyway why are people choosing much smaller countries to compare to Britain? Also as I've pointed out above Ireland was part of the British Empire so it is like comparing Texas to the US. You can't compare Ireland's 100 years to Britain's 800 years. With Ireland you have to factor in that much of her history was also part of being controlled by Britain. I'm getting a bit irritated with the logic of this.

Britain became great because they were a colonial power. They sucked up the resources and manpower of other countries. So people are comparing a country that was colonised by Britain with Britain?

Not having a go at you in particular but just pointing out the irrational comparison. Also Great Britain now is comprised of Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England.

Also to be fair to the OP they were asking about culture.

[Mitryejd]

Ireland all the way.

[Creoda]

One thing I would say is that the Irish culture is much stronger than the English culture but that is the case for the Welsh and Scots as well. The Celtic Fringe has a much stronger culture.

Of course the 'Celtic nations' have strong/unique culture, but they speak English at home.......most English have never spoken a word of Celtic in their life, nor do they know any foreign language.

I don't even know what is so specific about English culture so if anyone can answer that it would be appreciated.

A lot, but I don't have time to write a book. If modern England is less unique than other nations it's because the English comprehensively impressed their culture elsewhere. Moreover I think Irish, Scottish and Welsh have no problem distinguishing the English from themselves culturally, actually it's one of their favourite pastimes.

[Grace O'Malley]

Of course the 'Celtic nations' have strong/unique culture, but they speak English at home.......most English have never spoken a word of Celtic in their life, nor do they know any foreign language.


A lot, but I don't have time to write a book. If modern England is less unique than other nations it's because the English comprehensively impressed their culture elsewhere. Moreover I think Irish, Scottish and Welsh have no problem distinguishing the English from themselves culturally, actually it's one of their favourite pastimes.

Yes they have no problem distinguishing English from themselves but that is because of how they were treated by the English in the past. This is especially so with the Irish. Some of the nationalism of the Insular Celts developed in opposition to the Anglicisation process so when people have an understanding of history they can see where some of this comes from.

I also understand that English nationalism is seen in a different light to Irish nationalism or Scots and Welsh. A lot of that was because the English tried to destroy the culture of the others so now English nationalism is looked on as possibly more dangerous so it is discouraged in England. People would equate it to colonialism and oppression.

What's your opinion on this?