Who has contributed more to Civilization: Italians, or French?

[Foxy]

Speaking pragmatically, the French invented bidet, but Italians invented soap.
Both equal.

[wvwvw]

Italians invented the French so I vote Italians

[Ouistreham]

If you include Rome —the most influential empire in world history—, Italy can't be beaten.

If you don't, Italian contribution is restricted to plastic arts (including architecture), and to some extent to music. Western polyphonic music was invented in Northern France, but the universally accepted musical notation (and its vocabulary) was developed in Italy.

As for the rest —science, technologies, philosophy, literature, legal systems etc.— France rules, and Italy is virtually nothing.

[♥ Lily ♥]

Which era of time are you referring to though..? Do you mean the modern society today, or another era of time somewhere in history?

[Linet]

Speaking pragmatically, the French invented bidet, but Italians invented soap.
Both equal.

About soap.... Zosimos of Panopolis, circa 300 AD, describes soap and soapmaking. Galen describes soap-making using lye and prescribes washing to carry away impurities from the body and clothes. According to Galen, the best soaps were Germanic, and soaps from Gaul were second best. This is a reference to true soap in antiquity.

Germanics, Gauls and Greeks already had soap....

[Insuperable]

If you include Rome —the most influential empire in world history—, Italy can't be beaten.

If you don't, Italian contribution is restricted to plastic arts (including architecture), and to some extent to music. Western polyphonic music was invented in Northern France, but the universally accepted musical notation (and its vocabulary) was developed in Italy.

As for the rest —science, technologies, philosophy, literature, legal systems etc.— France rules, and Italy is virtually nothing.

Yes, France rules, but to say it is virtually nothing isn't that going to far?

[Ianus]

Both equal

[Linet]

I would vote for the Italians, putting the base of something is what is important and Romans did put the base for many things when French mostly advanced things.

[Foxy]

About soap.... Zosimos of Panopolis, circa 300 AD, describes soap and soapmaking. Galen describes soap-making using lye and prescribes washing to carry away impurities from the body and clothes. According to Galen, the best soaps were Germanic, and soaps from Gaul were second best. This is a reference to true soap in antiquity.

Germanics, Gauls and Greeks already had soap....

Also Romans had "soaps", but they were most caustic powders or other abrasive powders, not real soaps. Modern soaps were invented in Middle East and imported in Italy by cuisaders. In Italy they were perfectioned. Later also the French and Spanish started to produce soaps.

[Bahaman]

If you include Rome —the most influential empire in world history—, Italy can't be beaten.

If you don't, Italian contribution is restricted to plastic arts (including architecture), and to some extent to music. Western polyphonic music was invented in Northern France, but the universally accepted musical notation (and its vocabulary) was developed in Italy.

As for the rest —science, technologies, philosophy, literature, legal systems etc.— France rules, and Italy is virtually nothing.

I agree with you but think you're a bit downplaying Italians achievements. It's mostly Anglo-saxons and other Germanics that love to downplay southern european achivements(even France included) so don't be like them.

You can't ignore influential Italians in history such as Christopher Coloumbus, Gallileo Galilei, Napoleon Bonaparte, Enrico Fermi, Alessandro Volta, Da Vinci etc. Overall I agree French wipe the floor with Italins(especially when it comes to Science and Technology) but to say that Italy produced virtually nothing is wrong.