Apology to the Sicilian/Italian users here.

[Sikeliot]

I am really on a roll today apologizing for things, and this one will be a bit harder for people to accept since some of the posters here seem a bit unforgiving. But I might as well try, since due to limited knowledge that I had during most of the time I have been here, some of the statements I had given that were presented as fact turned out to be misinformed.. in the right direction in some ways, but misinformed.

Having seen more genetic results from different places in Italy, including Lazio and Abruzzo, it has become clear to me that, contrary to what I had once said, it is in fact not true that Sicilians and Calabrese are "displaced Greeks", while central Italians are a totally distinct, "pure" Italic population unrelated to southerners. I have learned that linguistic groupings are in fact not determinant of genes.

In reality, it is clearer now, having seen more genetic results, that there is a genetic cline in Italy, where as you move south down the peninsula, the genetic affinity to Northern Europe decreases the genetic influence from West Asia increases, and genetic influences from SW Asia and NW Africa appear as you get to the far south of the peninsula. This means that by the time you get to Sicily and Calabria, the North European influence is lowest, and the SW Asian and West Asian highest, with a minor NW African element. Thus, all Italians are related to one another, but genetically distinct as you move south.

The importance of this is that, on Oracle results and having seen a lot more results, Abruzzo southward, Sicily, Crete, and the Dodecanese islands of Greece all are more or less genetically similar. Haplogroup studies show that there is a Balkan genetic influence, likely signaling mainland Greek and Illyrian expansion, but the point of this is that, even prior to Greek influences, we should probably look to the pre-Greek, Neolithic descended populations of Sicily, Crete, etc. to figure out the genetic structure of these places. And given that "Italic" Abruzzo and Lazio are still very similar to Greek islands and Sicily, implies to me that the pre-Greek populations of central-southern Italy, Sicily, Crete, etc. were similar.

Since it has been shown through a greater sampling that even Anatolian-admixed Greeks, as well as North Aegean, Ionian islands, etc. have a similar amount of Northeast Euro, that this is not in fact "Slavic" but an integral part of the Greek genome.. since this is not found in southern Italy, Sicily, or Crete, it implies that these regions did not experience massive Greek settlement, but were naturally an East Med people who have probably not changed much.

Also, the fact that Cretan Greeks score nearly identically to Sicilians on most calculators implies that no, we do not have much Phoenician, Norman ,etc. ancestry. One study did find that Sicilians are kind of "in between" Cretans and southern Peloponnesians (Lakonians), but this sample was from Syracuse, which might have more NE Euro influence via Greece and pulling them a bit north. Most of the samples I have are from Palermo, Messina, Agrigento and Catania.

This also implies that we cannot assume about the populations in Sicily -- Elymians, Sikels, and Sicanians -- since there are no major island-wide divisions and no evidence that these people differed much genetically, despite speaking different languages. There is clearly a genetic cluster consisting of Sicily, Calabria, Crete, Abruzzo, etc. that kind of discredits the idea that there were massive genetic distinctions.

So I apologize for spreading misinformation, and since I have always promised to update my views and what I propose as the science disproves me, I will now act accordingly and cease and desist from presenting information that is incorrect or exaggerated. I apologize for any damage I have caused.

What I will not do, however, is deny that there is a genetic influence from West and SW Asia, and I will not misrepresent genetic information just because it is uncomfortable for some to hear. But I will no longer continue spreading information that is not accurate.

I hope that this can be the start of a better relationship and that you all accept my apology.

[Sikeliot]

So basically, Cretans and Dodecanese Greeks are "Sicilian like", rather than the reverse.. which means that the pre-Greek people of southern Italy likely were an East Med, Neolithic people related to Greek islands (probably settled in the same waves at the same time), who then received minor inputs from other groups. This implies that none of the relevant groups today (Greeks, Sicilians ,etc.) have likely changed much since ancient times, contrary to what I and others have said.

[Tooting Carmen]

[KawaiiKawaii]

Sikeliot, you've apologized enough. It's ok, there is no need to, Italians, Greeks and whatever won't hate you, because they don't really care.
Are you in some cult which forces you to apologizes for every mistake you made?

[Sikeliot]

So basically as a summary, the things I will no longer be saying:

1) Mainland Greeks are "Slavic". Instead I'll be saying "Cretans and some other islanders are "Sicilian-like" compared to other Greeks."

2) Southern Italians are not "Italian", but "Greeks" instead. Instead I'll be saying "There is a genetic cline in Italy, ranging from almost Swiss-like to almost Cypriot-like as you move south."

3) Sicilians are part Phoenician, and Norman. Instead I will say that they have not changed much since ancient times as evidenced by their firm placement within a genetic cluster shared with island Greeks and other southern Italians.

[Sikeliot]

Sikeliot, you've apologized enough. It's ok, there is no need to, Italians, Greeks and whatever won't hate you, because they don't really care.
Are you in some cult which forces you to apologizes for every mistake you made?

A user asked me to apologize, but also I realized that there were misconceptions on my end and wanted to clarify

[Lábaru]

As an Atlantid Alpha member I can give you a general pardon and free you of all your sins

[Sikeliot]

The main reason I am posting these threads is because I want to be on the side of science, not the one of wishful thinking. Thus, if my views are not in line with science, I will say so, apologize for spreading misinformation, and then correct my thinking.

I don't honestly care so much about people's personal feelings, it's about being accurate and consistent.

[KawaiiKawaii]

You still need, let's say, 20 Hail Mary, and all your sins will be forgiven.

[Lábaru]

The main reason I am posting these threads is because I want to be on the side of science, not the one of wishful thinking. .

this is the right way. When you have science on your side, you are talking with property and establishing facts.