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Thread: What would you disown your children for?

  1. #291
    Veteran Member wvwvw's Avatar
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    I like this poem:

    On Children
    Kahlil Gibran

    Your children are not your children.
    They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
    They come through you but not from you,
    And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.

    You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
    For they have their own thoughts.
    You may house their bodies but not their souls,
    For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow,
    which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
    You may strive to be like them,
    but seek not to make them like you.
    For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.

    You are the bows from which your children
    as living arrows are sent forth.
    The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite,
    and He bends you with His might
    that His arrows may go swift and far.
    Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;
    For even as He loves the arrow that flies,
    so He loves also the bow that is stable.

    We are all familiar with Khalil Gibran’s verses on ‘children’. “Your children are not your children… they are life’s longing for itself…” and it goes on to state that though your kids come through you, they belong not to you, and that we can house their bodies, not their souls. Fact is that we wanted kids, hence had them.

    Many parents try to manifest their own unfulfilled dreams and desires through their kids, not realising that children come into this world with their own dreams and agendas. I attended a very interesting course in metaphysics where it was stated that it was every parent’s duty to take care of their children, but not to expect their children to take care of them in return. I debated my perspective with Karma as a basis and asked, “If we take care of our kids when they are incapable, and fed them, changed their diapers, and protected them, isn’t it their duty to do so for us in our old age when we are incapable of taking care of ourselves?”

    I was told; you put them on the planet, hence it’s your obligation and duty to protect and nurture them and not vice versa. Your children should do so only if they ‘want’ to, not because they ‘have’ to. The discussion went into the big difference in dharma and karma and drove the point home beautifully. Do not judge your child’s behaviour based on your interpretation of what you have done for your child. Your child’s behaviour will in itself reflect what kind of parent you have been and whether as a human being you have earned your child’s gratitude, love, compassion and caring. From their birth to your death, it can’t be about what you want. You brought them here. You owe them, you don’t own them.

  2. #292
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    It's good u like the poem maybe start thread on it.

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    Centipede in Disguise Seraph of the End's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan_Dusan View Post
    Not to be mean here but u chose to make it personal: ur father was missing a leg when he met ur mother who already had 2 kids prior in a marriage? Sounds more like he sadly lacked options.

    I can compare to a story from my family where some cousin of my father's mother's father was badly maimed in WW1. He similarly was bound to chair and missing an arm. Due to his unfortunate circumstance he could not get any Serb woman. What is a man to do? Die without kids? He took a gypsy. Today all his descendants are gypsys and we don't recognize them as family. I wouldn't know where to look to find them except maybe their last name- Ciric.
    Very interesting. You're making an awful lot of assumptions here, which I don't appreciate by the way. I'm gonna just ignore this part: "Sounds more like he sadly lacked options", and ask you to never again talk with me about this subject and in return I will refrain from posting in your threads from now on. I believe that that is the best and only reasonable decision.

    Oh, and btw...if "real" Serbs are anything like you, I'm glad I'm not one of them

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    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight_Alien View Post

    Oh, and btw...if "real" Serbs are anything like you, I'm glad I'm not one of them
    It's not so much responding in my threads but constantly attacking Serbian ethnic purity and traditional values. But I won't bring it up if u don't like it no matter ur action since I'm not mean individual.

    Meeting u on this Internet forum made me realize that mixing never works. Ur first Serbian-Croat mix I interacted with for any period of time. Normally I know only pure Serbs. On one hand I see u trying to love Serbia on other I see u trying to undermine and destroy the identity to make more room for urself It's best to just realize ur Yugoslav who roots for Serbia

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    “You are so... 11:59” Kalimtari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan_Dusan View Post
    It's not so much responding in my threads but constantly attacking Serbian ethnic purity and traditional values. But I won't bring it up if u don't like it no matter ur action since I'm not mean individual.

    Meeting u on this Internet forum made me realize that mixing never works. Ur first Serbian-Croat mix I interacted with for any period of time. Normally I know only pure Serbs. On one hand I see u trying to love Serbia on other I see u trying to undermine and destroy the identity to make more room for urself It's best to just realize ur Yugoslav who roots for Serbia
    Stefane, a friendly advice from me; ask her for forgiveness cuz you definitely went too far with this. She doesn't deserve these kind of impolite words.
    C'mon, you can do better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan_Dusan View Post
    It's not so much responding in my threads but constantly attacking Serbian ethnic purity and traditional values. But I won't bring it up if u don't like it no matter ur action since I'm not mean individual.
    You don't need us Yugoslavs for that. Trust me.

    Yes, you're trying not to be. Just like I'm trying to be Serb. I guess it doesn't work for either of us

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalimtari View Post
    Stefane, a friendly advice from me; ask her for forgiveness cuz you definitely went too far with this. She doesn't deserve these kind of impolite words.
    C'mon, you can do better.
    There is not much I can offer that would be sincere. She can attack me and I'd turn the other cheek but she was attacking Serbian identity

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    “You are so... 11:59” Kalimtari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan_Dusan View Post
    There is not much I can offer that would be sincere. She can attack me and I'd turn the other cheek but she was attacking Serbian identity
    Stefane,....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Longbowman View Post
    Actually it's 13-16. You have no absolute control after that. You can't in any way 'own' an adult, and saying you 'own' a child is deeply misleading, though I understand what you're saying.
    It's not misleading at all. Children are the biological property of their biological parents. Like begets like. If this was false then it would be legal to kidnap and take other people's children.

    However states and religious ideologues do attempt to intersect authority of the parents, and usurp children as material property.

    So three predominant forces fight for ownership of any given child: parent, state, church.



    Quote Originally Posted by Longbowman View Post
    However, in the UK certainly, you can't get married until you're an adult (though you need parental consent between the ages of 16 and 18 in Scotland) so assuming everyone's 18+, you have no say in the matter.
    Parents have 18 years to imbue their own children with their own beliefs & values. By that time, a young adult probably will marry according to the deeper wishes of either parent.

    And they do, however there are often minuscule ideological battles, even between mother & father. Each as an individual has slightly different desires for their shared children.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unome View Post
    Parents have 18 years to imbue their own children with their own beliefs & values. By that time, a young adult probably will marry according to the deeper wishes of either parent.

    And they do, however there are often minuscule ideological battles, even between mother & father. Each as an individual has slightly different desires for their shared children.
    This part I agree with.
    Who is rich? He who is happy with what he has - Simeon ben Zoma, Ethics of the Fathers, Talmud, Avot 4:1

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