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Thread: The early Italic people

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    Made in Italy with original parts Volscian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulla View Post
    Some hypothetical subclade of R1b, as R1b-U152/S28.
    I don't believe in the rule one tribe one haplo. IMO Italics, Celts and Germanics share the same haplos but in different percentage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianus View Post
    Italic arrived in several waves between III and II millennial BC. Probabily the looked Central European but they melted with local population.
    Yes, this. I suspect that the Italics were more Northern looking, but were outnumbered by the local Med population (Neolithic people) and were thus absorbed into the population even though their language became dominant.

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    Made in Italy with original parts Volscian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulla View Post
    Maciamo is just one of many blogger/poster guessing this, probably not even one of the first.

    Read Diekenes (2010):

    Of interest is the fact that while R-U152 has a clear French-Italian center of weight, the locations exhibiting highest STR variance are Germany and Slovakia, i.e., Central Europe. My guess is that R-U152 originated in Central Europe spreading to the west and south, perhaps with Italo-Celtic speakers or some subset thereof. In its home territory of Central Europe, its frequency decreased by the introduction of the Germanic and Slavic speaking elements which dominate the region.

    Irrespective of what the ultimate origin of R-U152 is, it provides us with a good diagnostic marker for population movements out of the French-Italian area. In Italy for example it is noted at 26.6% for the north and 10.5% in the south. It would be extremely interesting to see its occurrence in Balkan Vlachs, as this would confirm/disprove the Italian component in their origin. However, R-U152 occurs in 7.3% of Cretans, suggesting introgression Y-chromosomes of North Italian (Venetian) origin, from the 4-century period of Venetian rule of the island. It also occurs in 4.1% of Greeks, where it might come from any period since the Roman annexation of the Hellenistic states to the Vlachs. However, its presence at only 1.8% of Romanians makes a large Italian contribution to the Romanian population unlikely. Balkan R-U152 chromosomes should be better resolved to determine when they arrived from the northwest.

    The paucity of R-U152 in Turks (0.6%) make tales of wandering Galatians less likely to be true. There is no doubt that Galatians settled in Anatolia, but they were probably so few in numbers that they did not permanently alter the population. Knowledgeable readers should chime in about the Lebanese Christian R1b which was posited as a signature of the Crusades a couple of years ago, and its position in the phylogeny.

    http://dienekes.blogspot.it/2010/08/...ntral-and.html

    But also read Tibor Feher Co-Admin of Kerchner's R1b Project, just guessing the same around 2010.

    http://www.kerchner.com/r1bu152proje...ay20100112.pdf

    On the web you can find other poster/blogger/amateur geneticist starting from around 2010.
    Founder effect and bottlenecked populations is the answer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Volscian View Post
    I don't believe in the rule one tribe one haplo. IMO Italics, Celts and Germanics share the same haplos but in different percentage.
    That's plausible.

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    What is an Italic look?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulla View Post
    That's plausible.
    So are Italic People originally from Central Europe?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DDCrush View Post
    So are Italic People originally from Central Europe?
    Yes, most likely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vesuvian Sky View Post
    There have been a number of theories on the subject. I made a poll some time ago discussing the various theories. Luigi Pigorini, the father of Italian pre- and proto- history assigned the process of Indo-Europeanization to the Terremare culture:

    http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...Italic-Origins

    Gimbutas initially viewed the IEs as invading the already established Remedello culture, which as Ulla pointed out Oetzi was indigenous to, and creating a superimposition upon the culture. This was based upon the observation of stone stella appearing in N. Italy similar to the stelae found found north of the Black sea. You can read more about the stelae in the thread above I linked.

    However, the Bell Beaker culture theory which is linked to Proto-Italo-Celtic has gained the most favor in recent years for a number of reasons for explaining proto-Italic's arrival/development.

    Coon was the one (or one of the ones) who assigned Halstatt/Urnfield cultures to Proto-Italics, which I don't believe is correct because they were more likely proto-Celtic by then.

    All IE's come from here eventually though:



    Which is of course the Pontic Caspian Steppe or Kurgan theory.
    No please, now even Italians will become Russian!

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    Lovecraftian in Design Vesuvian Sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Detfri View Post
    No please, now even Italians will become Russian!

    Its called Indo-European dispersal theories. No need to insert anachronisms here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zmey Gorynych View Post
    Turan is not a one day/night passion. Time can not change the hearts and minds of tr00 Turan followers because Turan is limitless in time and space. Turan is not merely a racial classification, Turan is a state of mind, it is the path of the righteous and the doom of the wicked.

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