Baby boy survives for nearly two days after abortion

[Grey]

Well, it boils down to the question: Does every person deserve to live? If yes, then abortion is wrong; if not, then what are the criteria to be worthy of life and do these unborn children fit them?

Abortion is indeed murder, and those who beat around that bush are deluding themselves. Just as the killing of animals is murder. However, is abortion a form of murder that can be justified?

[W. R.]

Laurentian's presence at the Apricity incited more of a negative reaction from posters than a child who has been murdered in cold blood.

I really do question why I post here..

Because everyone is rendered speechless with indignation.

[Nodens]

Well, it boils down to the question: Does every person deserve to live? If yes, then abortion is wrong; if not, then what are the criteria to be worthy of life and do these unborn children fit them?

Begs the question: "What is a person?"

[Tabiti]

Murder is a murder, but a person who pretends to be "civilized" should do it in the "softer" way.

[Agrippa]

I wonder why they didn't euthanize the baby as soon as it was cut out still alive.

I wonder too. A method I know is that they use a lethal injection to kill the fetus in the womb, so that afterwards it can be aborted being sure its already dead. If assuming that there is some kind of suffering, even if its no human personality, not even comparable to a higher animal in that regard, I would still, just for going the secure way and because it won't change too much otherwise, use that method in such cases.

So the child is almost instantly dead then, a really fast and absolutely humane death most people won't get when dying and the fetus dont even registers the abortion itself any more, being already dead. Thats a method I would prefer in such cases and considering the week in which it happened, that would have been preferable for sure.

Even if its "just in case".

I dont like animals suffering if being slaughtered neither, at least if its not necessary for the procedure, so why should we be that careless in the case of a fetus.

Probably something went really wrong in this case, but honestly, there are much worse cases of medical failure and since the doctor didnt do it deliberately...

This case was just good to show that a secure method, like described above, is preferable in such cases. I dont know why they didnt do it and whether this was just careless...

But sometimes newborns dont show reactions, especially early ones, so I guess that should have been the case here, no reaction, they thought its dead anyway. No control, that was the mistake. Surely nothing the doctor did deliberately, at least thats the least likely scenario in my opinion.


In general we have to consider how our society changed towards hypersensitive individualism too. In this case f.e. according to most older Christian believes aborts and new borns were not buried in holy soil and considered lost souls.

Until a newborn got a name and was accepted by the group, he was no group member at all.

Also the child mortality was extremely high, so it would have been a failed investment to care too much about it. Now in the Western society there is this hypersensitive attitude and there are not too many children, but those are almost advertising characters, used with their "cuteness".
Of the few children many more survive, often with intensive medical care, so the child's death is the absolute exception statistically and with so few children, every single one counts more and being sometimes even "overcared" in individual families.

This high investment - not enough children - hypersensitive Individualism is something which went wrong. High investment is good, but the bloodline and group being forgotten in the West and thats a disease. If we bring back that attitude, we also know that children are the future, but the future must be planned.

[Grey]

Begs the question: "What is a person?"

Humans commonly refers to the species Homo sapiens (Latin: "wise man" or "knowing man"),[3][4] the only extant member of the Homo genus of bipedal primates in Hominidae, the great ape family. However, in some cases the term is used to refer to any member of the genus Homo.

[Nodens]

'Human' and 'person' are not synonymous.

[Majar]

If it survived for 2 days it is clearly a fully formed human being and not a "fetus."



And we have the nerve to call other cultures "barbaric."

[Agrippa]

If it survived for 2 days it is clearly a fully formed human being and not a "fetus."



And we have the nerve to call other cultures "barbaric."

You think other cultures don't know abortion as a method? Most do, its just rational to think about whether its the right time for a child and infanticide a legitimate measure to get rid of the deformed and defect ones.

Thanks to our modern methods we dont have to rely on brutal methods, they are usually painless. If you consider whats being done in other cultures to people with a real personility and consciousness, thats really a big, big difference.

The personality and therefore person evolves over time and has a consciousness and human mind in the sense we know and recognise it.

The fetus state being defined from coming after the embryo-phase with 3 months, lasting to the birth.

Just some facts:
- the newborn has a brainsize of 0,35 l, an adult of 1,35
- speed of nerve impuls 3 m/s of the newborn to 110 m/s in an adult

The development of the cerebral cortex starts in the 20th week just, eyes not used, hearing in the 24th week, seeing from the 30th week ca.

To even compare that status with that of an adult person is strange, obviously one can't compare the protection of an adult person with that of a fetus which is more a potential person in development.

And of course, if we know that development is unfavourable, its time to stop it.

[jerney]

I wonder why they didn't euthanize the baby as soon as it was cut out still alive.

From what I understood from the article was that if the fetus isn't dead after the abortion then they're required by law to attempt to keep it alive (I fail to see the logic there).