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qpAdm: Bulgarian_1.DG= 77 - Kimak.SG= 23, p= 0.36, se= 0.31.
Y: Q-L330 > Q-YP771 > Q-BZ180 > Q-F16045* (F15008*) --> Baikal N, Altai MLBA, Aldy-Bel, Pazyryk, Hun.
MT: K1a --> Iron Gates, Starcevo, Bulgaria N, Bulgaria CA, Bulgaria BA.
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I always ask the same thing when commenting on the genetic origin of the proto-Bulgarians. And that is: on the basis of what research on genetic material are these claims made? When are the results of such a study compared with the genetics of modern Bulgarians? Given that we have neither the first study nor the second - comparatively how do you make your statements?
And something else. In order to be able to comment even in a historical aspect, you must be well acquainted with the history not only of the Bulgarians of the 5th-9th centuries, but also of the history of the region they inhabited, as well as of all historical and archaeological information about them concerning this historical and archaeological period. If the goal is like some minors where the Bulgarians are shouting are Tatar-Mongols / although their hollow heads should know that at that time there are no Tatars or Mongols /, and the others are shouting they are not Slavs / well no, we are not Slavs, we are far from the Slavs / this is no longer serious, but a projection of personal vision, but not scientific
“ ...Even if a man lives well, he dies and another one comes into existence. Let the one who comes later upon seeing this inscription remember the one who had made it. And the name is Omurtag, Kanasubigi. ”
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is RUS_Nomad_MAA142 Bulgar sample?
Bulgarians are about 4-7% Bulgar in this case
Target: Bulgarian:BulgarianH2
Distance: 3.3988% / 0.03398842
60.6 BGR_IA
34.4 HUN_Avar_Szolad
5.0 RUS_Nomad_MA
Target: Bulgarian:BulgarianF2
Distance: 2.4425% / 0.02442480
50.6 HUN_Avar_Szolad
42.2 BGR_IA
7.2 RUS_Nomad_MA
Target: Bulgarian:BulgarianE2
Distance: 2.9802% / 0.02980160
49.4 HUN_Avar_Szolad
45.6 BGR_IA
5.0 RUS_Nomad_MA
Target: Bulgarian:BulgarianD6
Distance: 2.0433% / 0.02043264
57.2 BGR_IA
38.8 HUN_Avar_Szolad
4.0 RUS_Nomad_MA
Target: Bulgarian:Bulgaria1
Distance: 2.3980% / 0.02398028
53.8 BGR_IA
40.8 HUN_Avar_Szolad
5.4 RUS_Nomad_MA
Do you know which Bulgarian individual samples are from north Bulgaria and which are from south?
Last edited by Abriekman; 11-24-2020 at 02:46 PM.
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In case of Iranic-Turkic theory of Bulgars, Bulgarians are 7-11% Bulgar
Target: Bulgarian:BulgarianH2
Distance: 3.3176% / 0.03317601
60.0 BGR_IA
32.4 HUN_Avar_Szolad
7.6 KAZ_Molaly_LBA
Target: Bulgarian:BulgarianF2
Distance: 2.1881% / 0.02188145
47.2 HUN_Avar_Szolad
41.6 BGR_IA
11.2 KAZ_Molaly_LBA
Target: Bulgarian:BulgarianE2
Distance: 2.6161% / 0.02616090
45.2 HUN_Avar_Szolad
44.8 BGR_IA
10.0 KAZ_Molaly_LBA
Target: Bulgarian:BulgarianD6
Distance: 1.8577% / 0.01857656
56.8 BGR_IA
36.2 HUN_Avar_Szolad
7.0 KAZ_Molaly_LBA
Target: Bulgarian:Bulgaria1
Distance: 2.1915% / 0.02191467
53.2 BGR_IA
38.0 HUN_Avar_Szolad
8.8 KAZ_Molaly_LBA
Distance: 3.6556% / 0.03655648
Target: KAZ_Molaly_LBA | ADC: 2x RC
61.1 Tajik
38.9 Besermyan
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Yes, it is. All of the samples are from Sofia, and all from a different background, presumably.
You should use an additional East-Med reference together with BGR_IA.
This is what we have by using this SS:
Code:Roman:TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA,0.1050018,0.1515678,-0.042332,-0.082365,-0.0040775,-0.0274705,-0.0024088,-0.0077882,-0.011402,0.028429,0.0097435,0.007006,-0.0120788,0.0030965,-0.0138435,-0.004475,0.0116693,-0.0021538,0.0087988,-0.00741,-0.0031817,0.0061828,-0.0048065,0.0030725,-0.001407 Roman:GRC_Mycenaean,0.107847,0.1563915,-0.008108,-0.0646808,0.0216962,-0.0271222,-0.0005288,-0.0021345,0.00542,0.047336,0.005521,0.0169352,-0.012785,-0.0006195,-0.0163882,-0.0098118,0.0210245,0.0036108,0.0123188,-0.0039705,-0.0058648,0.0001858,-0.0065935,0.0011448,-0.0007185 Roman:BGR_IA,0.126344,0.157407,0.007165,-0.051034,0.029852,-0.02259,0.00423,-0.001385,0.007772,0.032074,-0.001461,0.005695,-0.013974,-0.003028,-0.015065,-0.001458,0.01369,0.006968,0.006285,-0.014757,-0.006239,0.004699,-0.007888,0.003494,-0.008861 Slav:HUN_Avar_Szolad,0.133742,0.12948,0.073727,0.057494,0.0373915,0.029144,0.0094,0.007269,0.004295,-0.018224,-0.001543,-0.006369,0.0102575,0.017753,-0.0138435,0.0007295,0.0002605,0.0034205,0.0055305,0.001313,0,-0.002782,0.010846,-0.0069285,0.001736 Slav:CZE_Early_Slav,0.12862,0.129988,0.068259,0.046835,0.02739,0.013387,0.007285,0.014076,-0.001841,-0.018406,-0.000812,-0.004346,0.003717,0.007156,-0.010993,-0.003182,0.011604,-0.002027,-0.002388,-0.004752,0.005615,0.000618,0.001725,-0.000964,-0.006706 Slav:KAZ_Golden_Horde_Euro,0.134311,0.123895,0.076555,0.06783,0.044624,0.026774,0.013161,0.01223,-0.003681,-0.036083,-0.011367,-0.012139,0.025718,0.027937,-0.019272,-0.001326,0.010431,-0.00114,0.003771,0.013381,-0.00025,-0.007666,0.008874,-0.007591,0.006826 Turkic:RUS_Nomad_MA,0.087644,-0.090382,0.050534,0.031331,-0.036314,-0.008925,0.00376,0.007384,-0.009613,-0.016037,-0.007632,-0.001499,0.002527,-0.007019,-0.002172,-0.007425,-0.011735,0.004814,0.004022,-0.001,-0.004243,0.008779,0.001972,-0.00012,-0.002754
Noting it again, we have to see an influence on Bulgarians which separates them from their neighbours. The Turkic admixture in Romanians came from Cumans -this is what we understand from historical information-. Results suggest the same Cuman heritage also in Bulgaria; as we see the similar ratio of Turkic admixture there. We can also assume that the Turkic heritage in Romania and Bulgaria are from Bulgars, but this would not be much realistic. Albeit, in that story we can assume that Bulgarians and Romanians are 2-5% Proto Bulgar.
But when not assuming it is from Cumans and not from Proto-Bulgars, then we see none Proto-Bulgar admixture in the region. You can also replace Turkic with Alanic and Iranic. But what you will see is shared Iranic/Alanic scores all over the Balkans. See:
Code:Roman:TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA,0.1050018,0.1515678,-0.042332,-0.082365,-0.0040775,-0.0274705,-0.0024088,-0.0077882,-0.011402,0.028429,0.0097435,0.007006,-0.0120788,0.0030965,-0.0138435,-0.004475,0.0116693,-0.0021538,0.0087988,-0.00741,-0.0031817,0.0061828,-0.0048065,0.0030725,-0.001407 Roman:GRC_Mycenaean,0.107847,0.1563915,-0.008108,-0.0646808,0.0216962,-0.0271222,-0.0005288,-0.0021345,0.00542,0.047336,0.005521,0.0169352,-0.012785,-0.0006195,-0.0163882,-0.0098118,0.0210245,0.0036108,0.0123188,-0.0039705,-0.0058648,0.0001858,-0.0065935,0.0011448,-0.0007185 Roman:BGR_IA,0.126344,0.157407,0.007165,-0.051034,0.029852,-0.02259,0.00423,-0.001385,0.007772,0.032074,-0.001461,0.005695,-0.013974,-0.003028,-0.015065,-0.001458,0.01369,0.006968,0.006285,-0.014757,-0.006239,0.004699,-0.007888,0.003494,-0.008861 Slav:HUN_Avar_Szolad,0.133742,0.12948,0.073727,0.057494,0.0373915,0.029144,0.0094,0.007269,0.004295,-0.018224,-0.001543,-0.006369,0.0102575,0.017753,-0.0138435,0.0007295,0.0002605,0.0034205,0.0055305,0.001313,0,-0.002782,0.010846,-0.0069285,0.001736 Slav:CZE_Early_Slav,0.12862,0.129988,0.068259,0.046835,0.02739,0.013387,0.007285,0.014076,-0.001841,-0.018406,-0.000812,-0.004346,0.003717,0.007156,-0.010993,-0.003182,0.011604,-0.002027,-0.002388,-0.004752,0.005615,0.000618,0.001725,-0.000964,-0.006706 Slav:KAZ_Golden_Horde_Euro,0.134311,0.123895,0.076555,0.06783,0.044624,0.026774,0.013161,0.01223,-0.003681,-0.036083,-0.011367,-0.012139,0.025718,0.027937,-0.019272,-0.001326,0.010431,-0.00114,0.003771,0.013381,-0.00025,-0.007666,0.008874,-0.007591,0.006826 Alanic:RUS_Alan_MA,0.1099532,0.1045994,-0.025418,-0.0089794,-0.0262818,0.0051316,0.0054522,-0.0072458,-0.0456908,-0.0248206,0.0028256,0.0098314,-0.0166796,-0.0065784,0.005809,-0.002758,0.005372,-0.0059036,-0.0057318,0.0034768,0.003893,0.006529,0.0015532,-0.0004094,-0.0036644
Or use the Molaly sample which you used.
Code:Roman:TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA,0.1050018,0.1515678,-0.042332,-0.082365,-0.0040775,-0.0274705,-0.0024088,-0.0077882,-0.011402,0.028429,0.0097435,0.007006,-0.0120788,0.0030965,-0.0138435,-0.004475,0.0116693,-0.0021538,0.0087988,-0.00741,-0.0031817,0.0061828,-0.0048065,0.0030725,-0.001407 Roman:GRC_Mycenaean,0.107847,0.1563915,-0.008108,-0.0646808,0.0216962,-0.0271222,-0.0005288,-0.0021345,0.00542,0.047336,0.005521,0.0169352,-0.012785,-0.0006195,-0.0163882,-0.0098118,0.0210245,0.0036108,0.0123188,-0.0039705,-0.0058648,0.0001858,-0.0065935,0.0011448,-0.0007185 Roman:BGR_IA,0.126344,0.157407,0.007165,-0.051034,0.029852,-0.02259,0.00423,-0.001385,0.007772,0.032074,-0.001461,0.005695,-0.013974,-0.003028,-0.015065,-0.001458,0.01369,0.006968,0.006285,-0.014757,-0.006239,0.004699,-0.007888,0.003494,-0.008861 Slav:HUN_Avar_Szolad,0.133742,0.12948,0.073727,0.057494,0.0373915,0.029144,0.0094,0.007269,0.004295,-0.018224,-0.001543,-0.006369,0.0102575,0.017753,-0.0138435,0.0007295,0.0002605,0.0034205,0.0055305,0.001313,0,-0.002782,0.010846,-0.0069285,0.001736 Slav:CZE_Early_Slav,0.12862,0.129988,0.068259,0.046835,0.02739,0.013387,0.007285,0.014076,-0.001841,-0.018406,-0.000812,-0.004346,0.003717,0.007156,-0.010993,-0.003182,0.011604,-0.002027,-0.002388,-0.004752,0.005615,0.000618,0.001725,-0.000964,-0.006706 Slav:KAZ_Golden_Horde_Euro,0.134311,0.123895,0.076555,0.06783,0.044624,0.026774,0.013161,0.01223,-0.003681,-0.036083,-0.011367,-0.012139,0.025718,0.027937,-0.019272,-0.001326,0.010431,-0.00114,0.003771,0.013381,-0.00025,-0.007666,0.008874,-0.007591,0.006826 Iranic:KAZ_Molaly_LBA,0.094473,-0.010155,0.012822,0.050388,-0.041546,0.016176,-0.002115,-0.008538,-0.02802,-0.03262,-0.005846,0.003297,-0.0055,-0.017478,0.015201,0.008618,-0.005998,-0.000633,-0.000754,-0.000125,-0.008235,0.002102,0.004683,-0.003012,0.006706
So now it is a requirement to ask, what makes Bulgarians special here?
Nothing.
So where are the Proto-Bulgarian heritage?
Nowhere.
Even if we are going to search for it, as the only genetic outliers in the Balkans and also modern-day inhabitants of the Proto-Bulgar region, Balkan Turks are the only candidates.
qpAdm: Bulgarian_1.DG= 77 - Kimak.SG= 23, p= 0.36, se= 0.31.
Y: Q-L330 > Q-YP771 > Q-BZ180 > Q-F16045* (F15008*) --> Baikal N, Altai MLBA, Aldy-Bel, Pazyryk, Hun.
MT: K1a --> Iron Gates, Starcevo, Bulgaria N, Bulgaria CA, Bulgaria BA.
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Question is what should we use to know percentage. Amateur model of andre did Bulgarians, Gagauz scoring some Alanic, while other Balkanites were 0% on this model, but Greeks score some because of Anatolian admixture, so we can say East Med admixture in Bulgarians confuses with part of Alanic, in case of Turkic I think we should use other samples for other Balkanic populations to compare them to Bulgarians
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It's all about the samples. Turkic admixture is widespread among Wallachians and Moldovians, and Szekels in Transylvania. While also present in some Bulgarians -no region specified- Romanians seem to have more because we have more proof of it, and they have more population. Bulgarians as a whole tested lesser than Romanians, and also have a lesser population.
On the other hand, Romanians might indeed have more Turkic, and Bulgarians have lesser. In this option, the current result would be a result of the falsification of current Bulgarian-Romanian samples.
qpAdm: Bulgarian_1.DG= 77 - Kimak.SG= 23, p= 0.36, se= 0.31.
Y: Q-L330 > Q-YP771 > Q-BZ180 > Q-F16045* (F15008*) --> Baikal N, Altai MLBA, Aldy-Bel, Pazyryk, Hun.
MT: K1a --> Iron Gates, Starcevo, Bulgaria N, Bulgaria CA, Bulgaria BA.
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