Bulgarian Folk Music

[Pribislav]

What are the other differences?

Shtokavian is also divided between ikavian ijekavian and ekavian, but doesn't mean that each dialect is a different language.

Torlakian is ekavian, but this is the only thing which makes it sound as its close to Serbian.

According to some linguists Torlakian is just primitive Shtokavian.

[Mingle]

That is Shop dialect, part of SE Serbia speak that dialect.
Bulgarian standard is yakavian (byalo, mlyako), and Shop is ekavian (belo, mleko). This is not only difference.
This dialect from video is quite Serbian shifted, unlike Bulgarian standard which sounds East Slavic shifted.

In the Temska Manuscript of Pirot (Torlakian-speaking area) dating back to 1764, the local speech is referred to as Buglarian.

The title of the manuscript is "Из душевного обреда в’ неделных днех слова избрана. На прости язык болгарскій". - "Selected words from the weekly spiritual rituals. In simple Bulgarian language".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temska_manuscript

But you have a point about them celebrating Slava which is a Serb tradition. Is it possible that Shops originally identified as their own distinct people but then later assimilated into Serbs and Bulgarians?

[Pribislav]

In the Temska Manuscript of Pirot (Torlakian-speaking area) dating back to 1764, the local speech is referred to as Buglarian.

The title of the manuscript is "Из душевного обреда в’ неделных днех слова избрана. На прости язык болгарскій". - "Selected words from the weekly spiritual rituals. In simple Bulgarian language".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temska_manuscript

But you have a point about them celebrating Slava which is a Serb tradition. Is it possible that Shops originally identified as their own distinct people but then later assimilated into Serbs and Bulgarians?

In Bulgarian part of Shopluk Slava is banned in 1879.

The strongest haplogroup among Serbs from Torlakian speaking region is I2-PH908. They have less in % than Dinaric Serbs, but still is the strongest.
On the other hand among Bulgarian I2a-Din is not even on the first place, let slone I2-PH908.
^^
Before genetic researches I used to bealive that Serb Torlakians are close related with Bulgarians, but not now.

[Mingle]

In Bulgarian part of Shopluk Slava is banned in 1879.

The strongest haplogroup among Serbs from Torlakian speaking region is I2-PH908. They have less in % than Dinaric Serbs, but still is the strongest.
On the other hand among Bulgarian I2a-Din is not even on the first place, let slone I2-PH908.
^^
Before genetic researches I used to bealive that Serb Torlakians are close related with Bulgarians, but not now.

Now that I think about it, I think the reason the Temska Manuscript was referred to as Bulgarian is because Old Church Slavonic and Bulgarian may have been used synonymously since OCS is based off the variety of Slavic spoken in Bulgaria (the first Slavic land to start writing in their language). In the past, OCS was the language of liturgy in Orthodox Slavic countries and most official documents in Orthodox Slavic lands would have been written in OCS (Bulgarian).

[Pribislav]

Now that I think about it, I think the reason the Temska Manuscript was referred to as Bulgarian is because Old Church Slavonic and Bulgarian may have been used synonymously since OCS is based off the variety of Slavic spoken in Bulgaria (the first Slavic land to start writing in their language). In the past, OCS was the language of liturgy and most official documents in Slavic countries would have been written in OCS (Bulgarian).

In Ottoman time existed term "Bulgarians" for poor people who don't have own land. "Bulgarians" as social class are mentioned even in Sandžak and eastern Bosnia.

Macedonian users can confirm for existence non-ethnic meaning of term "Bulgarian."

[billErobreren]

Mostly here as a spectator. I truly like their folk music. I remember these women having garnered a modest following when I was a boy.

[Mingle]

In Ottoman time existed term "Bulgarians" for poor people who don't have own land. "Bulgarians" as social class are mentioned even in Sandžak and eastern Bosnia.

Macedonian users can confirm for existence non-ethnic meaning of term "Bulgarian."

But I don't think "Bulgarian language" would be used as a social term. I think it means Old Church Slavonic in this context.

My point was that even though the Temska Manuscript refers to the manuscript's language as Bulgarian, that doesn't mean that Torlakians natively called their actual language was called Bulgarian. It was probably just what they called the liturgical language (OCS) not what they spoke in their homes.

---

By the way, Shopi and Torlakian-speaking are not the same thing.

Shopluk (according to Serbian geographer Jovan Cvijić)



Torlakian-speaking lands

[Pribislav]

But I don't think "Bulgarian language" would be used as a social term. I think it means Old Church Slavonic in this context.

My point was that even though the Temska Manuscript refers to their language as Bulgarian, that doesn't mean that Torlakians natively called their language as Bulgarian. It was probably just what they called the liturgical language (OCS) not what they spoke in their homes.

---

By the way, Shopi and Torlakian-speaking are not the same thing.

Shopluk (according to Serbian geographer Jovan Cvijić)



Torlakian-speaking lands

All Serbian Shopi are in the same time Torlakian speakers, but not all Torlakian speakers are Shopi. Because Shopluk is region in SE Serbia and W. Bulgaria and Shopi are people living in Shopluk. There are Torlakian speakers outside of Shopluk, west and SW of Shopluk.

[Pribislav]

All Serbian Shopi are in the same time Torlakian speakers, but not all Torlakian speakers are Shopi. Because Shopluk is region in SE Serbia and W. Bulgaria and Shopi are people living in Shopluk. There are Torlakian speakers outside of Shopluk, west and SW of Shopluk.

You second map show that most or Torlakian speaking areal is in Serbia. In Bulgaria is small piece near border with Serbia and one enclave on Danube.

[Mingle]

All Serbian Shopi are in the same time Torlakian speakers, but not all Torlakian speakers are Shopi. Because Shopluk is region in SE Serbia and W. Bulgaria and Shopi are people living in Shopluk. There are Torlakian speakers outside of Shopluk, west and SW of Shopluk.

Since both Shtokavian and Torlakian are part of the same dialect continuum, is there any way to draw the dividing line between Shtokavian and Torlakian? Like why is the dialect in Nish considered Torlakian but not the dialect in Krushevac? Does the Nish dialect have some features that the Krushevac dialect doesn't that makes it Torlakian? Or is the line between what is considered Shtokavian and Torlakian just drawn randomly?