Apartheid-era South Africa or post-Stalin USSR: which was more oppressive?

**Dandelion** · 10-07-2016, 01:01 AM

Originally Posted by Tooting Carmen

Anyway, I think that Mikhail Gorbachev and FW De Klerk are two of the 20th Century's greatest leaders, precisely because they brought these two appalling tyrannies to a (relatively) peaceful end.

Still, current South Africa is nothing to write home about today and they call Cape Town 'the last deck of the Titanic'. One reason I'm kind of reserved in regards to South Africa.
I also don't think Israel compares to Apartheid South Africa. To an extent it does. Depends which Arabs you're talking about. I neither see an alternative for Israel given their neighbours.

Hopefully South Africa will develop eventually to a thriving nation, but I'm not the positive it would.

**Tooting Carmen** · 10-07-2016, 01:06 AM

Originally Posted by Danielion

Still, current South Africa is nothing to write home about today and they call Cape Town 'the last deck of the Titanic'. One reason I'm kind of reserved in regards to South Africa.
I also don't think Israel compares to Apartheid South Africa. To an extent it does. Depends which Arabs you're talking about.

Hopefully South Africa will develop eventually to a thriving nation, but I'm not the positive it would.

South Africa has its faults, but what is beyond dispute is that Apartheid was both unsustainable and immoral. As for Israel, it has nothing to do with this specific debate and is a separate issue altogether.

**Dandelion** · 10-07-2016, 01:10 AM

Originally Posted by Tooting Carmen

South Africa has its faults, but what is beyond dispute is that Apartheid was both unsustainable and immoral. As for Israel, it has nothing to do with this specific debate and is a separate issue altogether.

In the final years of Apartheid (talking about the '80s), society over there was aware of it and they were readying the people for a transition to a newer South Africa via education. In my opinion a wise decision.
Still, a sham democracy and one party state no matter how corrupt the ANC is with skyrocketing murder rates and racism versus whites running rampant. I have to be honest with you. Is the current South Africa better than Apartheid South Africa?

**Tooting Carmen** · 10-07-2016, 01:12 AM

Originally Posted by Danielion

In the final years of Apartheid (talking about the '80s), society over there was aware of it and they were readying the people for a transition to a newer South Africa. In my opinion a wise decision. Still, a sham democracy and one party state no matter how corrupt the ANC is with skyrocketing murder rates and racism versus whites running rampant. I have to be honest with you. Is the current South Africa better than Apartheid South Africa?

The current ANC-led South Africa has lots of corruption and violence, but it is beyond dispute that Apartheid was a truly horrific and totalitarian system that had to go.

**Thunder_shock** · 10-07-2016, 01:22 AM

They were both oppressive but in different ways. Russia's oppression came from attempts to restructure the society and overhaul the economy of the Soviet Union. It also had an oppressive system that crushed dissent both at local and political level. South Africa on the other hand imposed an oppressive system that confided a majority of the population in key enclosed areas (ghettoes) where they were used as cheap labour. This majority also had very few legal and political rights. South Africa's oppression is more similar to middle age feudalism in Europe where blacks are the peasants and the whites are the upper class.
The soviet Union populace even under Stalin may not have enjoyed many rights but there was equality in the population (actually too much) and the dictator wielded a stick to keep the kulaks, traitors and revolutionaries down.

**Tooting Carmen** · 10-07-2016, 01:40 AM

Originally Posted by Thunder_shock

They were both oppressive but in different ways. Russia's oppression came from attempts to restructure the society and overhaul the economy of the Soviet Union. It also had an oppressive system that crushed dissent both at local and political level. South Africa on the other hand imposed an oppressive system that confided a majority of the population in key enclosed areas (ghettoes) where they were used as cheap labour. This majority also had very few legal and political rights. South Africa's oppression is more similar to middle age feudalism in Europe where blacks are the peasants and the whites are the upper class.
The soviet Union populace even under Stalin may not have enjoyed many rights but there was equality in the population (actually too much) and the dictator wielded a stick to keep the kulaks, traitors and revolutionaries down.

People were NOT equal in the USSR - power and wealth depended on one's ranking within the Communist Party, assuming they allowed you to join in the first place.

**Norse** · 10-07-2016, 01:46 AM

Mandela and the Zulu reign of terror is worse than both.

**Tooting Carmen** · 10-20-2016, 11:23 PM

bump

**~~Cristiano viejo~~** · 10-20-2016, 11:26 PM

Only in the Holodomor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor Stalin killed between 2,5 and 7,5 millions of Ukrainians... and do you make this dumb question??

**Tooting Carmen** · 10-20-2016, 11:28 PM

Originally Posted by Cristiano viejo

Only in the Holodomor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor Stalin killed between 2,5 and 7,5 millions of Ukrainians... and do you make this dumb question??

I said the USSR post-Stalin.