Achievements and victories of Bulgaria a years after USSR

[Archduke]

Sounds like a conspiracy theory. There was a large gypsy minority in Turnovo during the 13th or 14th century, there never was this "mass importation of gypsies" you speak of, at least not in recorded history, and the gypsies who did live in Bulgaria were subject to an assimilation campaign: https://bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92...86%D0%B5%D1%81

Gypsies split themselves to different groups depending from where they come. You can meet gypsies with origins from ROmania, Serbia, Turkey and even Hungary.

The census from 1975 clearly says everything. They numbered only 18k in 75' and someone would say that the communist regime repressed the gypsy minority, but actually it was the other way around.

Also, most gypsies vote for DPS, not BSP.

Hahah we have enough gypsies to vote for both parties. 500k for DPS and 500k for BSP.

[Kabul]

Gypsies split themselves to different groups depending from where they come. You can meet gypsies with origins from ROmania, Serbia, Turkey and even Hungary.

The census from 1975 clearly says everything. They numbered only 18k in 75' and someone would say that the communist regime repressed the gypsy minority, but actually it was the other way around.



Hahah we have enough gypsies to vote for both parties. 500k for DPS and 500k for BSP.

1 million gypsies??? The census from 2011 says that there are only about 350k, and that's a lower number than there were in 2001.

Edit: Also, Todor Zhivkov, when asked by another member of BKP, said that part of the reason why he went through with the revival process was because gypsies had on average 5 kids, there is no recorded mass importation of gypsies, their birth rate explains it, and the fact that the communists themselves were trying to solve the problem by assimilating and deporting them heavily suggests that BKP didn't start the problem.

[Archduke]

That's true to a large extent, but as I said, you should give credit where credit's due, just because there were negative aspects doesn't mean that you should repress what was positive. Look at my post, I mention quite a few positive things we achieved back then, and that is something to take pride in.

Who cares if Bulgaria had a good army or if she send 2 people to space when the people were starving. The truth is that communism was good for stupid and uneducated people and for people who had no land or property before 1945. Back then Bulgaria had many uneducated people as most of the population were villagers, just like your family probably.

My family had a LOT vineyards along the coast and from the richest family in the village, we became the poorest and had to work in our OWN land for 0.60 stotinki per day.

[Kabul]

Who cares if Bulgaria had a good army or if she send 2 people to space when the people were starving. The truth is that communism was good for stupid and uneducated people and for people who had no land or property before 1945. Back then Bulgaria had many uneducated people as most of the population were villagers, just like your family probably.

My family had a LOT vineyards along the coast and from the richest family in the village, we became the poorest and had to work in our OWN land for 0.60 stotinki per day.

My grandparents owned much land near the Greek border, and after the fall of communism, only about 1 square km was returned, they worked for a lev I know what you're talking about. People weren't starving during communism in Bulgaria, this simply isn't true, in the nearly 1,400 year history of the Bulgarian state, I haven't heard of there being one recorded famine. If anything, agricultural production and distribution of agricultural goods was much higher during socialism, this starvation you speak of didn't even exist. Sending 2 men to space is more than we will ever be able to send now, and it would be lovely if we weren't a protectorate incapable of defending itself, but such is life.

[Archduke]

1 million gypsies??? The census from 2011 says that there are only about 350k, and that's a lower number than there were in 2001.

Roughly said. I don't need to lie myself with the census when I look the situation with my own eyes. Gypsies are majority in most villages and small towns, thats the reallity. If we had to describe Bulgaria's demographic situation we would say that ethnic Bulgarians live mainly in big towns and cities (who also have at least 1 gypsy mahala), while the village population is 90% gypsy.

Edit: Also, Todor Zhivkov, when asked by another member of BKP, said that part of the reason why he went through with the revival process was because gypsies had on average 5 kids, there is no recorded mass importation of gypsies, their birth rate explains it, and the fact that the communists themselves were trying to solve the problem by assimilating and deporting them heavily suggests that BKP didn't start the problem.

Man, go to your town's mahala and ask the gypsies where do they come from. Most aren't from Bulgaria.

[Archduke]

I mean, really, what did you expect was going to happen, that transition was going to be a piece of cake?

Look at countries like Slovakia or the Czech Republic.

[Kabul]

Look at countries like Slovakia or the Czech Republic.

They had more infrastructure than us to begin with.

[щрбл]

i sayd nothing about love/hate commies, i asked about achievements of bulgaria after ones.

Yes, but you seemed to ironically compare the regimes before and after '89.

It's unrealistic to expect communism to make a political return in Bulgaria, but people really should give credit when credit's due, before 1989, Bulgaria had a constrantly growing economy/population, quite possibly the strongest army in Southern Europe, and an internal policy which favoured ethnic Bulgarians, and Bulgaria sent 2 men into space, achieving the place of the 6th country in the world to send men to space, all thanks to the Soviet Intercosmos program. Oh, and let's not forget about how the Gypsies actually worked back then. Right now, Bulgaria's a pretty shitty place, but hey, everyone's got their darkest hour.

Forced urbanization, removing the peasants from their lands forcing them to live in city blocks and work in factories isn't a bright achievement in my eyes. These things would have happened naturally anyway. Centralized economy where absolutely everything is planned by Moscow is not what I call a success story. Sounds like living on a drip-feed, doesn't it... Also, how is sending people on a foreign spacecraft a home achievement anyway? It's doubtlessly a great success for the russian space program but certainly not ours. As for the army, it has done pretty well before that as well..

Hey, do you realize that currently we are in this situation because of our past? After 1991 most of the communist elite emigrated to Western Europe and America and took Bulgaria's money with them.


The money of the things which Bulgaria received during communist times are now spend by certain families somewhere far from Bulgaria.

Not all of them, many have unfortunately remained and still aren't behind bars.

[Antimage]

So from around 2% in 1945 they are now 10-15%.

It was the same in Hungary and we never imported a single gypsy. Ethnic hungarians and bulgarian have very low birthrates, less than what is needed to sustain the population and gypsies multiply like rabbits, so it's totally possible.

Do you really think that importing a few thousand gypsies is the reason why there are 1 million gypsies in Bulgaria isntead of 200.000? That's ridiculous

[Archduke]

It was the same in Hungary and we never imported a single gypsy. Ethnic hungarians and bulgarian have very low birthrates, less than what is needed to sustain the population and gypsies multiply like rabbits, so it's totally possible.

Do you really think that importing a few thousand gypsies is the reason why there are 1 million gypsies in Bulgaria isntead of 200.000? That's ridiculous

I really doubt that the situation in Hungary is the same as in Bulgaria. Probably only Romania is worse than Bulgaria.


And the reasons are many, the import is just one of the main ones.