Who is greater French, Iberians or Germans

[Cristiano viejo]

gypsies ? no sorry "Famille espagnole de la La Plaine Saint-Denis au début des années 1930" a typical family of spanish refugees.

Cool story, cool story

[Damião de Góis]

The thing is there is no spanish version at all, either at school or at the high. Maybe at the Uni, in the college on History, I don't know.

And its curious. Spain is quite indifferent concerning to Portugal.

Only some rara avis like me are interested in what really happenned.

The version you show is quite simplistic by the way. Very significative in any kind of propaganda.

I wrote a short version, if you want more details you can read any history book.

If you believe it and you think England and France had nothing to do with that war of independence against Spain, bravo!

As said, keep up believing in such a romantic and epic explanation.

Like i wrote, they seeked allies. It would be very difficult to achieve this without allies.

Are there any books or sources where i can read your version of events? The one that tells of a secret Anglo-French plot to put a portuguese puppet in the portuguese throne 40 years later? Also tell me why would they do this, Portugal had already lost its power due to the Iberian Union.

[Suinthila]

I wrote a short version, if you want more details you can read any history book.



Like i wrote, they seeked allies. It would be very difficult to achieve this without allies.

Are there any books or sources where i can read your version of events? The one that tells of a secret Anglo-French plot to put a portuguese puppet in the portuguese throne 40 years later? Also tell me why would they do this, Portugal had already lost its power due to the Iberian Union.

No. What you really have to know it's the heroic, romantic and epic version of that war. The rest is just History.

I got no intention to convince you at all, man. Just think what you want to.

People need to have epic episodes of history to fix their own identity, real or invented, through their States.

I got nothing against that.

As said, keep up believing in your official history. I stop believing in official histories long long time ago.

And I am pretty sure there are some revisionist historians even in Portugal.

If you are really interested of it, just make the effort to find them. It's not that hard.

But something is telling me you're not, that you feel comfortable like that, beliving in the official history.

As said, nothing against. But don't try to convince me it was that simplistic, since it was not.


I

[Damião de Góis]

No. What you really have to know it's the heroic, romantic and epic version of that war. The rest is just History.

I got no intention to convince you at all, man. Just think what you want to.

People need to have epic episodes of history to fix their own identity, real or invented, through their States.

I got nothing against that.

As said, keep up believing in your official history. I stop believing in official histories long long time ago.

And I am pretty sure there are some revisionist historians even in Portugal.

If you are really interested of it, just make the effort to find them. It's not that hard.

But something is telling me you're not, that you feel comfortable like that, beliving in the official history.

As said, nothing against. But don't try to convince me it was that simplistic, since it was not.


I

I have read History of Portugal books by both portuguese and foreign authors. I wasn't aware there was a different version of this in Spain, but i'm not surprised.

[Suinthila]

I have read History of Portugal books by both portuguese and foreign authors. I wasn't aware there was a different version of this in Spain, but i'm not surprised.

If you call a different version to claim that the intervention of France and especially England in the war of independence of Portugal was beyond decissive and that both France and England had a special interest in such a split up, and that the portuguese people, as a whole, had no interest in that independence, okay. But that was what really happenned.

You presented that war as if the main factor of that war was the unhappiness of the portuguese people, true actor of such an independence and that's not true at all.

The main factor was the interventions of France and England, as said, from much before that war started. Just from the beginning that both countries got united they fought against it, and they kept on struggling till they reached to split them up.

A united Iberia was considered by them as extremely dangerous for their own interests. If only Spain was already very dangerous to them, just imagine what they had to feel when both Portugal and Spain became one only monarchy.

That's a fact, whatever you had read from your portuguese or foreign authors. Any thing different to this, that you had read in all those authors you assure to have read, either is a lie or just propaganda.

And I don't want to make this discussion longer, I think it's okay so long. Besides it's not that important to me, as I've told you already several times. As I told you my interest for History is just because the Geopolitics and Geoestrategy, in past and current times.

[Damião de Góis]

If you call a different version to claim that the intervention of France and especially England in the war of independence of Portugal was beyond decissive and that both France and England had a special interest in such a split up, and that the portuguese people, as a whole, had no interest in that independence, okay.

I stopped reading here. I'm gonna believe you're just a misinformed person.

[TheMaestro]

Out of those 3 I like Franch most for some reason, good veratile climate, nice countryside, nice language, good food.

[hurtuv]

there is simply no comparison, you can't compare the France of Voltaire, Rousseau, Descartes, Napoléon, etc or the Germany of Engels, Goethe, Nietszche, Planck, Marx, etc to the decadent Iberia which was viewed as part of Africa by early french scholars :



Mémoires historiques sur la révolution d'Espagne, 1816, Dominique de Pradt






Le déclin de la Grande Race (1916), Madison Grant, éd. L'Homme Libre, 2002, chap. V-La race méditerranéenne, p. 137

ahahaha this whole thing reminds me of "OK boomer"

OK Boomer in the Urban Dictionary: "When a baby boomer says some dumb shit and you can't even begin to explain why he's wrong because that would be deconstructing decades of misinformation and ignorance so you just brush it off and say okay."

(poor boomers, they were the hippies of the 60's )

but yeah, if this may happen to boomers, born in the 1940's and 50's, imagine what you'd have to do to deconstruct decades of misinformation and ignorance to those people.

Also, one thing is merit, another is how much recognition. This, on a continental/world scale, can vary, depending on where you're born.

To give some examples, on the topic of philosophy, the uncle of one of my mother's best friends, passed away recently: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eduardo_Louren%C3%A7o

On the topic of classical music, here are some Portuguese compositions, definetely recommend:

It's french who put your people in the same bag as us because they view you as inferior, but in some way I can understand them when the spanish refugees came to france with such phenotypes it must have been a shock :

gypsies ? no sorry "Famille espagnole de la La Plaine Saint-Denis au début des années 1930" a typical family of spanish refugees.

That woman in the left holding the baby is atypical as fuck, if you look closely at her cheek bone it looks really weird, might even be some sort of deformation, which might be related to her other atypical traits; and te guy right in the middle and the one above him do look a bit gypsy-oid, not common among ethnic Iberians; but it might be a bit of an illusion due to picture qualit. It's not impossible that they are some lighter than average gypsies that got mistook for ethnic Spaniards, due to language barrier in those days, and other factors; but it might very well not be the case. Otherwise, they don't look so atypical for Iberia, as a group, but one doesn't have to assume they'd be the most typical looking family either. Pigmentation might be harder to judge, based on black and white pics with not the best quality compared to nowadays, but the baby on the top right seems to have lighter hair; child blondism is not uncommon in Iberia really, even if that kid is not exactly blond. Also, France has a fair share of population with similar looks to many Iberians, perhaps contrary to how its stereotypised in many places; so, in my honest opinion, I count nine individuals there that would pass with relative ease, two with less ease (those two guys, who might pass or not), and then there is that woman who looks weird even here.

[Cristiano viejo]

Out of those 3 I like Franch most for some reason, good veratile climate, nice countryside, nice language, good food.

Spain: better climate, better countryside, better language, better food. And I would add better women, better landscapes, better party and better sports

France, indeed, defeats us in economy and in having blacks and Maghrebis, if that counts.

[TheMaestro]

Spain: better climate, better countryside, better language, better food. And I would add better women, better landscapes, better party and better sports

France, indeed, defeats us in economy and in having blacks and Maghrebis, if that counts.

I think parts of Spain get very warm in summer, I although like warm days and cold nights, France have more versatile climate because of the proported narrow/tall size. Language wise I seem to find French way of speaking very dynamic, Spanish is good too but when I compare to the music, FR seem to be more listenable/enjoyable. As for cuisine French one contains alot of Chicken/Potato which I love. Spain has also good cuisine but French is for me better excluded extremes like Snails.

And I would add better women, better landscapes, better party and better sports

Yes Spain has probably better looking women, also much more ratio of cuter women but they both have good looking women as a nations.

As for the landscapes as I said France rural areas are beautifull and the size of France is huge, the major cities are not a big win nowaydays, because French are a bit wierd plus the multicult. is on extreme level, but on rural areas, France is beautiful.

Better party's? Anyday Spain > FR

Better Sports ? Well Africans are winning alot for FR So if we are talking about natives one, yes XD

As for the people, Spainards are much more hospitable and friendlier by miles and miles and miles. My dad actually calls Spainards the friendliest bunch in Europe.