Which ancient civilization you prefer?

[SKYNET]

Celtic

[Journeyman26]

Minoans were Greeks, Myceneans were Greeks, Classical Greeks were....well Greeks ...so sure Greeks shared alot among them and among their ancestors? ....sounds right :

Egyptian temples and Greek temples are nothing alike, their architecture, customes and way of life were totaly different....i dont see what we shared ...On the other hand the Romans? Well, there only details can tell them apart from Greeks and that not always :nono: the photo of the city you posted, if it wasnt for the Coloseum, it could have been a Greek city...now is a copy of Greek cities with the Coloseum in the middle....
The political system? Sure was different but now we talk about culture....and in culture...the Roman one was but mostly a copy....

I get what you are saying, but I feel like this is a bit dismissive. Latin culture thrived in Italy for hundreds of years before the founding of Rome, with frequent contact with the Greeks (both mainland greece through trade, and Greek colonies in southern Italy and Sicily. Also, from contact with Greco-influenced Etruscans to the North. You almost make it sound like they all sat around the table one day and were like "So.. we shall copy the Greeks". Much in the same way that most of the world has followed American popular culture for the last 80 or so years so it was with the Greeks and surrounding cultures. The Greeks were the dominant culture in southern Europe, it is only natural the Romans would have picked up some of the same traditions and gods as the Greeks. That being said there were many aspects of Roman culture, dress, architecture, art, music, and holidays that were uniquely Roman.

[Linet]

I get what you are saying, but I feel like this is a bit dismissive. Latin culture thrived in Italy for hundreds of years before the founding of Rome, with frequent contact with the Greeks (both mainland greece through trade, and Greek colonies in southern Italy and Sicily. Also, from contact with Greco-influenced Etruscans to the North. You almost make it sound like they all sat around the table one day and were like "So.. we shall copy the Greeks". Much in the same way that most of the world has followed American popular culture for the last 80 or so years so it was with the Greeks and surrounding cultures. The Greeks were the dominant culture in southern Europe, it is only natural the Romans would have picked up some of the same traditions and gods as the Greeks. That being said there were many aspects of Roman culture, dress, architecture, art, music, and holidays that were uniquely Roman.

I didnt put a time frame of when Romans copied the Greeks ...but they copied them anyway. Romans just took Greek culture...if they build copies of Greek temples but outside planted willow trees when Greeks didnt....does that count as Roman civilisation? Because mostly thats the level of the differences...

Now, is not that i cant think some things that were invented during Roman times but in general Romans created no civilisation.... but just copied and used the Greek one to their liking and needs...In science Romans were not interested , Greeks were the ones to advantace it even during Roman times. Romans were more organised, had infrastucture and city plans but also coloseum and gladiators and rather gave an unrefined hue to whatever good they got from the Greeks.....

[Dylan]

Roman, Greek, Mesopotamian, and Chinese ancient civilizations are in the top tier for me, but I also have a little interest in Celtic Civilizations too. Iberian civilization really doesn't seem at all interesting, but if I were Iberian I'd probably be interested in it, since I'm largely Celtic and have an interest in Celtic Civ.
Personally I prefer Ancient Rome, but I'm also part Italian, and have taken studied latin. Whereas I know nothing about Ancient Chinese civ.Mesopotamia is cool too, but I don't know enough about it. Greece is just behind Rome for me.

[Dylan]

I didnt put a time frame of when Romans copied the Greeks ...but they copied them anyway. Romans just took Greek culture...if they build copies of Greek temples but outside planted willow trees when Greeks didnt....does that count as Roman civilisation? Because mostly thats the level of the differences...

Now, is not that i cant think some things that were invented during Roman times but in general Romans created no civilisation.... but just copied and used the Greek one to their liking and needs...In science Romans were not interested , Greeks were the ones to advantace it even during Roman times. Romans were more organised, had infrastucture and city plans but also coloseum and gladiators and rather gave an unrefined hue to whatever good they got from the Greeks.....

Well a large proportion of Ancient Romans descended from Greek settlers in the first place, so saying they took the culture can be interpreted as kind of cynical. Romans weren't that great in most sciences that I can think of, but they were good with engineering, especially in their uses of cement.
Greek culture also borrowed a lot form the nearby civilizations, mixing them to its own liking, so in a sense, even this could be considered "copying", but obviously to a lesser degree since it was from multiple cultures, and they did change it up a bit, whereas Rome did not do this as much.

[Linet]

Well a large proportion of Ancient Romans descended from Greek settlers in the first place, so saying they took the culture can be interpreted as kind of cynical. Romans weren't that great in most sciences that I can think of, but they were good with engineering, especially in their uses of cement.
Greek culture also borrowed a lot form the nearby civilizations, mixing them to its own liking, so in a sense, even this could be considered "copying", but obviously to a lesser degree since it was from multiple cultures, and they did change it up a bit, whereas Rome did not do this as much.

Examples?
We copied what from who? ...I have heard it before but nobody ever told me what we copied and from who....i only get a general "Greeks copied from this and this civilisation" but nobody can tell me what we copied. They think that since we were traders and travelers and came in contact with other civilisations, we must have borrowed things just because we should.....like if is a must even with no proofs .

[Journeyman26]

I didnt put a time frame of when Romans copied the Greeks ...but they copied them anyway. Romans just took Greek culture...if they build copies of Greek temples but outside planted willow trees when Greeks didnt....does that count as Roman civilisation? Because mostly thats the level of the differences...

Now, is not that i cant think some things that were invented during Roman times but in general Romans created no civilisation.... but just copied and used the Greek one to their liking and needs...In science Romans were not interested , Greeks were the ones to advantace it even during Roman times. Romans were more organised, had infrastucture and city plans but also coloseum and gladiators and rather gave an unrefined hue to whatever good they got from the Greeks.....

Incredibly dismissive. I thought you were just exaggerating before, but you seen to be suffering under the delusion the Romans invented nothing. Ok.. here are just a few.

construction
1) First people to use concrete for building projects
2)dome and barrel vault + cross vault in construction
3) insulated glazing for keeping buildings warm
4) large scale Pentaspastos cranes capable of lifting 6-7 tons
5) Aquaducts such as the Aqua Claudia and Aqua Marcia. Aquaducts the likes of which had never been seen and would not be seen for another 1000 years.
6) Extensive buttress dam construction for filling resevoirs for said aquaducts.. 72 in spain alone. Some are still in use today.
7) Hydraulic mining or "hushing"
8) city scale indoor plumbing. with hot and cold "Hypocaust" rooms, as well as flushable toilets.

Agriculture
1) Donkey mills for grain crushing
2) oil screw press
3) turbine mills
4) Roman harvesting machine
5) foot powered looms
6) fermented dried sausage "salami"

Seafaring
1) spirit sails with fore and aft masting
2) 4th century AD paddle wheel boats
3) stern mounted rudders
4) Lanteen sails

Science
1) Brass coinage = used zinc to produce brass denomination coinage
2) Glass blowing = window glass attributed to Pompeii in 79 AD
3) Essentials for steam engines = steam power in Hero's aelopile, crank and rod connecting mechanism, cylinder and piston (metal force pumps), non-return valves in plumbing, gearing in water mills and clocks
4) hard soap
5) stenography = tironian notes

Military
- too many to count

Literature
- Aeneas, Virgil, Lucretius. Cicero, Epictetus, Plotinus, Augustine of Hippo, Emperor Marcus Aurelius, Panaetius, Seneca the Younger, Livy, Petronius, Vitruvius, Tacitus, Cato the Elder, Horace, Juvenal etc.
- Being involved in agriculture and plant scient, I have always enjoyed Columella. I actually have a large section on his book De Re Rustica in my literature review for my M.Sc. thesis; he describes common crops and agronomy practices for the empire. As well as crop rotations and early soil science.

[Journeyman26]

Examples?
We copied what from who? ...I have heard it before but nobody ever told me what we copied and from who....i only get a general "Greeks copied from this and this civilisation" but nobody can tell me what we copied. They think that since we were traders and travelers and came in contact with other civilisations, we must have borrowed things just because we should.....like if is a must even with no proofs .

Greek vs Roman Attitudes: Greeks revered the poet
Romans revered the warrior and the farmer

Greek vs Roman Mythology: Poetical & fanciful myths about individuals
Practical myths focussing on the gods relevance to everyday life and the Roman state.


Greek vs Roman Creativity: The Greeks were highly imaginative and developed their fantastic mythology
The Romans borrowed existing mythology, names were changed. Incorporated gods from all over the empire.


Greek vs Roman Nature of the gods: Greek mythology focussed on the personality traits of gods
Roman mythology focussed on practical roles and achievements

Greek vs Roman Actions: Individualistic, emphasis placed on the heroic deeds and achievements and actions of individuals
Non-Individualistic, emphasis placed on the achievements and actions of Romans and Rome

Greek vs Roman Politics: Greek religion had little influence on politics
Roman religion was officially endorsed by the state and exerted considerable influence over the government.

Greek vs Roman Priests: Greek priests were revered as teachers and healers of individuals
Roman Politicians took the offices of influential priests, called pontiffs, to gain control of the people.

Greek vs Roman Superstitions: Greeks were less superstitious than the Romans
Rites and ceremonies were practised to interpret the will of the gods by studying omens

Greek vs Roman Festivals: Fewer festivals
Numerous festivals, about one day in four was set apart for the worship of particular gods, celebrated by feasts, games and sacrifices

Greek vs Roman Public Worship: Only in temples and in stories
Roman gods were worshipped at every public event, including the gladiatorial games

Greek vs Roman Offerings: Votive religion, based on the exchange of gifts (offerings) for the gods blessings.
Based on appeasing the gods and requesting their help to avenge enemies. For example, Romans used 'Curse tablets'

Greek vs Roman Blood Sacrifices: Greeks made blood sacrifices but the killing of animals were not part of the ceremonies
Romans made highly public blood animal sacrifices and killing

Greek vs Roman Household Gods: Less emphasis on household gods and ancestors
Families would honor their household spirits and ancestors

[Dylan]

Examples?
We copied what from who? ...I have heard it before but nobody ever told me what we copied and from who....i only get a general "Greeks copied from this and this civilisation" but nobody can tell me what we copied. They think that since we were traders and travelers and came in contact with other civilisations, we must have borrowed things just because we should.....like if is a must even with no proofs .

lol no idea, I've never read anything other than intro level texts on ancient greece. I'm far from an expert

[Linet]

Greek vs Roman Attitudes: Greeks revered the poet
Romans revered the warrior and the farmer

Greek vs Roman Mythology: Poetical & fanciful myths about individuals
Practical myths focussing on the gods relevance to everyday life and the Roman state.


Greek vs Roman Creativity: The Greeks were highly imaginative and developed their fantastic mythology
The Romans borrowed existing mythology, names were changed. Incorporated gods from all over the empire.


Greek vs Roman Nature of the gods: Greek mythology focussed on the personality traits of gods
Roman mythology focussed on practical roles and achievements

Greek vs Roman Actions: Individualistic, emphasis placed on the heroic deeds and achievements and actions of individuals
Non-Individualistic, emphasis placed on the achievements and actions of Romans and Rome

Greek vs Roman Politics: Greek religion had little influence on politics
Roman religion was officially endorsed by the state and exerted considerable influence over the government.

Greek vs Roman Priests: Greek priests were revered as teachers and healers of individuals
Roman Politicians took the offices of influential priests, called pontiffs, to gain control of the people.

Greek vs Roman Superstitions: Greeks were less superstitious than the Romans
Rites and ceremonies were practised to interpret the will of the gods by studying omens

Greek vs Roman Festivals: Fewer festivals
Numerous festivals, about one day in four was set apart for the worship of particular gods, celebrated by feasts, games and sacrifices

Greek vs Roman Public Worship: Only in temples and in stories
Roman gods were worshipped at every public event, including the gladiatorial games

Greek vs Roman Offerings: Votive religion, based on the exchange of gifts (offerings) for the gods blessings.
Based on appeasing the gods and requesting their help to avenge enemies. For example, Romans used 'Curse tablets'

Greek vs Roman Blood Sacrifices: Greeks made blood sacrifices but the killing of animals were not part of the ceremonies
Romans made highly public blood animal sacrifices and killing

Greek vs Roman Household Gods: Less emphasis on household gods and ancestors
Families would honor their household spirits and ancestors

Ok, since they had more festivals ....then they definately had a different civilisation .....no matter that the festivals were Greek with different names....like the Saturnalia etc

Incredibly dismissive. I thought you were just exaggerating before, but you seen to be suffering under the delusion the Romans invented nothing. Ok.. here are just a few.

construction
1) First people to use concrete for building projects
2)dome and barrel vault + cross vault in construction
3) insulated glazing for keeping buildings warm
4) large scale Pentaspastos cranes capable of lifting 6-7 tons
5) Aquaducts such as the Aqua Claudia and Aqua Marcia. Aquaducts the likes of which had never been seen and would not be seen for another 1000 years.
6) Extensive buttress dam construction for filling resevoirs for said aquaducts.. 72 in spain alone. Some are still in use today.
7) Hydraulic mining or "hushing"
8) city scale indoor plumbing. with hot and cold "Hypocaust" rooms, as well as flushable toilets.

Agriculture
1) Donkey mills for grain crushing
2) oil screw press
3) turbine mills
4) Roman harvesting machine
5) foot powered looms
6) fermented dried sausage "salami"

Seafaring
1) spirit sails with fore and aft masting
2) 4th century AD paddle wheel boats
3) stern mounted rudders
4) Lanteen sails

Science
1) Brass coinage = used zinc to produce brass denomination coinage
2) Glass blowing = window glass attributed to Pompeii in 79 AD
3) Essentials for steam engines = steam power in Hero's aelopile, crank and rod connecting mechanism, cylinder and piston (metal force pumps), non-return valves in plumbing, gearing in water mills and clocks
4) hard soap
5) stenography = tironian notes

Military
- too many to count

Literature
- Aeneas, Virgil, Lucretius. Cicero, Epictetus, Plotinus, Augustine of Hippo, Emperor Marcus Aurelius, Panaetius, Seneca the Younger, Livy, Petronius, Vitruvius, Tacitus, Cato the Elder, Horace, Juvenal etc.
- Being involved in agriculture and plant scient, I have always enjoyed Columella. I actually have a large section on his book De Re Rustica in my literature review for my M.Sc. thesis; he describes common crops and agronomy practices for the empire. As well as crop rotations and early soil science.

.... great then .....so the entire civilisation was a copy but they invented all that? I am "impressed" .....

But just for your information half of them, were already in use by the Greeks .....in some cases like the "Hydraulic mining or hushing" and the city scale indoor plumbing. with hot and cold "Hypocaust" rooms, as well as flushable toilets" those were used by the Greeks....since 2000BC , you know the Minoans....plus why do you include in your list the inventions that the Greeks find in Roman period ? You count as Roman even what Greeks invented? Like the "Essentials for steam engines = steam power in Hero's aelopile, crank and rod connecting mechanism, cylinder and piston (metal force pumps), non-return valves in plumbing, gearing in water mills and clocks"....so Greeks of Roman times count as Romans to you?
Then why dont you also add Hypatia in the list ? Well maybe you did, i didnt check the list very well so....

Stenography? So Herodotus who was using it....was Roman ?

....I could write even more about it.....but at least check what you send before you send it and dont give me Greek inventions and things the Greeks had for hundrend of years as Roman....:nono: