Latin American genetic studies [official archive]

[Costas]

yo mas que nada digo +70% euro porque vi que en la mayoria de paises donde realmente tienen clasificacion racial (Brazil/Cuba) tenian resultados de 85% euro para los blancos. Mas que nada en el rango de 70-100% euro entonces me parecio un numero mas o menos razonable para decir que esa gente se va a creer blanca.

Pero entiendo a lo que vas vos, obvio que la percepcion va a cambiar segun el pais. Igual si yo te pregunto cuando blancos hay en tu pais, y vos me contestas "99% porque aca los no blancos son nada mas que los senegaleses" entonces no me estas respondiendo la pregunta, Se entiende?

Jaja sí obvio aunque eso es llevar un poco el argumento al ridículo pero se entiende.

Entonces según vo el 50% de los argentinos son mestizos? Porque eso se entiende de tu lógica según los estudios que posteaste.

Y además no entiendo porque le sumaste el SSA al europeo.. si fuera por eso entonces Cuba es como 10000% blanco jaja

[Argentano]

Sí pero eso es lo raro, según tú el 65% de los argentinos son blancos (que es exactamente el porcentaje de gente > 60% Euro).

Y luego, según tú el 25% de los chilenos son blancos (pero el porcentaje de gente > 60% Euro es en verdad más alto, 35%).

Pero en fin jaja se entiende tu punto tranqui

Yo lo que hice fue decir

Aprox 50% de Argentinos son +70% euro en estos estudios. Como son de hospitales publicos subo el numero a 60-65%
Aprox 10% de los chilenos son +70% euro en estos estudios.Como son de hospitales publicos subo el numero a 20-25%

Mas o menos esa fue la logica que use

[Argentano]

Jaja sí obvio aunque eso es llevar un poco el argumento al ridículo pero se entiende.

Entonces según vo el 50% de los argentinos son mestizos? Porque eso se entiende de tu lógica según los estudios que posteaste.

Y además no entiendo porque le sumaste el SSA al europeo.. si fuera por eso entonces Cuba es como 10000% blanco jaja

en realidad no es que lo sume, sino que no lo pude restar. Lo puse en el posts que no es perfecto porque no peudo restarle el SSa.

Igual, ese mismo tests decia que los resultados SSA estaban sobre valorados.Yo dudo mucho que haya argentinos que son 90% europeos 10% Africanos 0 % Indigenas. Eso seguro es north african.

Aca lo explican que los resutaltados ssa son medio raros

We validated our ancestry estimates with two approaches. One, by comparing ancestry estimates obtained with our panel of 99 AIMs to those obtained with 118,192 SNPs in a subset of individuals. Overall, we observed that the individual ancestry estimates that we obtained using information from 99 AIMs were strongly correlated with those obtained with genome wide data for the major ancestral components (European and Indigenous American). However, this was not the case for African ancestry, which shows a correlation coefficient of about 0.12. This low level of correlation is likely the result of an overestimation of the African component, as estimated by the 99 AIMs panel. Since genetic ancestry estimates have statistical variance, when the proportion of ancestry is close to zero the estimates of ancestry tend to be biased towards higher numbers (since the model does not allow for <0 ancestry). Therefore, care should be taken in interpreting ancestry estimates when the overall proportion of that ancestral group is low (<5%).

[Dominicanese]

la republica dominicana, mi paiz en fenotipico es

40% moreno/a (griffe) una persona de 75% africano y 25% europeo
25% indio/a (mulato) una persona de 50/50 europeo y africano
25% prieto/a o moreno/a o negro/negra (negro) una persona negro puro o casi puro 85%+
8% blanquito/a (quadroon) una persona 75% europeo y 25% africano (como yo, aqui estoy yo Dominicanese)
2% rubio/a o blanquito (blanco) una persona puro blanco o casi puro 85%+

las ultimas prevas hasta ahora de ADN en la RD lo pone como
60% africano
35% europeo
5% amerindios

^^ eso esta totalmente casi en pareja a lo que nos parecemos fenotipico ^^, obviamente la sangre amerindio no se ve en nuestra cara como en el caso de puerto rico que todavia ahi mucha gente que se le ven el indio pero si no fuera por el amerindio nuestra sangre africana es tuviera mas alto y mas en pareja con nuestro fenotipicos

yo soy 64% caucasoide (el 4% extra es de africa norte), 27% negroide, y 9% mongoloide (amerindio) si no fuera por mi sangre amerindio (que no se ve en mi cara para nada) entonces pues mi sangre caucasoide estuviera en 73% o 69% europeo, soy practicamente un quadroon puro y eso yo lo ha sabido por mi familia

[Costas]

Yo lo que hice fue decir

Aprox 50% de Argentinos son +70% euro en estos estudios. Como son de hospitales publicos subo el numero a 60-65%
Aprox 10% de los chilenos son +70% euro en estos estudios.Como son de hospitales publicos subo el numero a 20-25%

Mas o menos esa fue la logica que use

Pero alguien podría decir "son hospitales públicos pero de Buenos Aires/Santiago que es la zona más europea de Argentina/Chile", por lo que se compensan mutuamente.

De todas formas como dije, Dominicanese me preguntó algo y yo le respondí según el concepto de blanco en Chile que es fenotípico.

Si Birdman o tú quieren agregarle el aspecto genotípico be my guest, pero eso no es lo que preguntaron.

[BirdMan]

para de ofenderte tan fácilmente. Si te molesta lo que digo entonces simplemente no me escribas jaja, pero qué agotador si te vas a estar ofendiendo todo el rato.

You must see the irony in that accusation. Every time I post anything about Chile, you get offended. This is a case in point. I don't want to further derail this thread by citing other examples, but there are many.

I will admit that I am more sensitive to your posts than other people's. I think that's because we have developed a somewhat adversarial relationship. I'm more than willing to deescalate things (and would actually enjoy it because I often find your points interesting), but it's a two way street.

You're pedantry about things like minor autocorrect mistakes and constant accusatory tone don't really do much to encourage cordial communications.

Tercero, gracias por tu aporte, pero como dije, el concepto de "blanco" en Chile es fenotípico, no genotípico.

I believe you. I just feel it didn't really hurt anyone to post the results of a genetic study that I felt also answered the question (or at least contributed to the discussion).

Cuarto, yo no he opinado sobre los boricuas o lo que sea.

In a recent thread (also about genetics), you spent multiple posts telling me about how the average Chilean looks much more European than the average Puerto Rican. You're entitled to that opinion, but I just want you to recognize that it's somewhat hypocritical to suggest that I can't comment on issues relating to Chile because I haven't been there while you freely make pronouncements about how Puerto Ricans look and our culture.

simplemente he dicho que la sangre africana se diluye más difícilmente, cosa que ya no digo más porque tú te ofendes cada vez que lo hago, así que prefiero ahorrarme conflictos

I don't get offended when you say that at all. In fact, I have always agreed that it's true. I simply think it's irrelevant to discussions about genetics. I'm more than happy to discuss it with you (and agree with you about it) in threads about phenotype.

You're frustrated with me for posting a genetic study in a genetics thread because you felt it wasn't germane to the question being asked about Chile. Surely you can sympathize with me finding it a bit tedious when you post opinions about phenotype (which I similarly feel don't really belong).

[Costas]

You must see the irony in that accusation. Every time I post anything about Chile, you get offended. This is a case in point. I don't want to further derail this thread by citing other examples, but there are many.

I will admit that I am more sensitive to your posts than other people's. I think that's because we have developed a somewhat adversarial relationship. I'm more than willing to deescalate things (and would actually enjoy it because I often find your points interesting), but it's a two way street.

You're pedantry about things like minor autocorrect mistakes and constant accusatory tone don't really do much to encourage cordial communications.




I believe you. I just feel it didn't really hurt anyone to post the results of a genetic study that I felt also answered the question (or at least contributed to the discussion).



In a recent thread (also about genetics), you spent multiple posts telling me about how the average Chilean looks much more European than the average Puerto Rican. You're entitled to that opinion, but I just want you to recognize that it's somewhat hypocritical to suggest that I can't comment on issues relating to Chile because I haven't been there while you freely make pronouncements about how Puerto Ricans look and our culture.



I don't get offended when you say that at all. In fact, I have always agreed that it's true. I simply think it's irrelevant to discussions about genetics. I'm more than happy to discuss it with you (and agree with you about it) in threads about phenotype.

You're frustrated with me for posting a genetic study in a genetics thread because you felt it wasn't germane to the question being asked about Chile. Surely you can sympathize with me finding it a bit tedious when you post opinions about phenotype (which I similarly feel don't really belong).

Jaja sinceramente me cago de lata leer ese papiro egipcio gigante

Saludos

[BirdMan]

Pero por qué 70% Euro? Esa definición es arbitraria.

Al menos en Chile (no sé en Argentina) la definición de blanco es fenotípica. Definir blanco como "más de X% euro" es arbitrario, onda dónde dibujai la línea? Quién es el Gran Hermano que decide eso??

Es como que yo dijera "ya, toda persona sobre 60% amerindio es Indígena".

"Ok según ese estudio Argentina es 5% Indígena y Chile 0% Indígena ok that's it bye"

No funciona así..

Nobody is saying it works exactly like that, but it is a good proxy. Relatively few people under 70% European will look white and many people above that number will.

There is no perfect division, but it gives a relatively good idea. A country with fewer people over 70% European, will almost invariably have fewer people who pass in Europe so it's a good metric to make comparisons. (When speaking about countries on the mestizo spectrum, I should add)

De todas formas como dije, Dominicanese me preguntó algo y yo le respondí según el concepto de blanco en Chile que es fenotípico.

Si Birdman o tú quieren agregarle el aspecto genotípico be my guest, pero eso no es lo que preguntaron.

You're presenting your own interpretation of the question as fact.

He didn't ask "using Chile-specific definitions of these terms, in your opinion what percentage of people would fall into the following phenotypical categories?"

He asked how many Chileans are Amerindians, Mestizos, Castizos, and Whites. Those are general terms, not exclusive to Chile at all. He could have intended it in the sense you're suggesting, but answering it by posting studies that show what percentage of people fall into commonly accepted definitions of those terms isn't somehow wrong, much less inappropriate (again, in a thread dedicated to the discussion of genetic studies).

[BirdMan]

Here i did it with another 2 tests. This is not perfect because the argentine chart doesent let me isolate the european from the ssa but it gives an idea.

Seeing these comparisons reminded me of a graphic from the huge GALA study that I think I may have forgotten to post.




I find it a very good way of visualizing the differences in groups. It'd be interesting to add the Mexicans and Puerto Ricans to the comparison (keeping in mind that Puerto Rican's African ancestry might make them appear physically less European than they are).

[Argentano]

Pero alguien podría decir "son hospitales públicos pero de Buenos Aires/Santiago que es la zona más europea de Argentina/Chile", por lo que se compensan mutuamente.

De todas formas como dije, Dominicanese me preguntó algo y yo le respondí según el concepto de blanco en Chile que es fenotípico.

Si Birdman o tú quieren agregarle el aspecto genotípico be my guest, pero eso no es lo que preguntaron.

Y bueno a esa persona habria que explicarle que la clase baja pampeana esta llena de inmigrantes limitrofes y pobres de provincias del noa y nea.

Yo no creo que una muestra de hospitales publicos en paises donde la mayoria de la gente va a hospitales privados puedan ser perfectamente representativas.