Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 42

Thread: Macedonia and the Macedonians: GREEK as fuck.

  1. #1
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Last Online
    07-09-2022 @ 06:33 PM
    Location
    Southern Europe
    Ethnicity
    Hellenic, Iberian
    Ancestry
    Iberia, Hellas
    Country
    Uruguay
    Y-DNA
    E-V13
    Gender
    Posts
    2,099
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 2,035
    Given: 1,241

    5 Not allowed!

    Default Macedonia and the Macedonians: GREEK as fuck.

    The first Macedonians and their origins

    In his A History of Macedonia, Nicholas G. L. Hammond reconstructed the earliest phases of Macedonian history based on his interpretation of later literary accounts and archaeological excavations in the region of Macedonia. According to Hammond, the Macedonians are missing from early Macedonian historical accounts because they had been living in the Orestian highlands since before the Dark Ages, possibly having originated from the same (proto-Greek) population pool that produced other Greek peoples.

    Temenids and Argeads

    The Macedonian expansion is said to have been led by the ruling Temenid dynasty, known as "Argeads" or "Argives". Herodotus said that Perdiccas, the dynasty's founder, was descended from the Heraclid Temenus. He left Argos with his two older brothers Aeropus and Gayanes, and travelled via Illyria to Lebaea, a city in Upper Macedonia which certain scholars have tried to connect with the villages Alebea or Velvedos. Here, the brothers served as shepherds for a local ruler. After a vision, the brothers fled to another region in Macedonia near the Midas Gardens by the foot of Mount Bermion, and then set about subjugating the rest of Macedonia. Thucydides's account is similar to that of Herodotus, making it probable that the story was disseminated by the Macedonian court, i.e. it accounts for the belief the Macedonians had about the origin of their kingdom, if not an actual memory of this beginning. Later historians modified the dynastic traditions by introducing variously Caranus or Archelaus, the son of Temenus, as the founding Temenid kings—although there is no doubt that Euripides transformed Caranus to Archelaus meaning "leader of the people" in his play Archelaus, in an attempt to please Archelaus I of Macedon.

    The migrations of the first -argead- macedonians, from Greek peloponesus to north of Greece:





    Etymology

    The name Macedonia derives from the Greek Μακεδονία (Makedonía),a kingdom (later, region) named after the ancient Macedonians. Their name, Μακεδόνες (Makedónes), is cognate to the Ancient Greek adjective μακεδνός (makednós), meaning "tall, slim". It was traditionally derived from the Indo-European root *mak-, meaning 'long' or 'slender' (attested in Homer, and recorded by Hesychius of Alexandria as a Doric word meaning "large"), or makros ('long, large'), as well as related words in other Indo-European languages. It is commonly explained as having originally meant 'the tall ones' or 'highlanders'. However, according to modern research by Robert S. P. Beekes, both terms are of Pre-Greek substrate origin and cannot be explained in terms of Indo-European morphology.

    (Source)


    Makedon in the Greek mythology

    Makedon, also Macedon (Greek: Μακεδών) or Makednos (Μακεδνός), was the eponymous mythological ancestor of the ancient Macedonians according to various ancient Greek fragmentary narratives. In most versions, he appears as a native or immigrant leader who gave his name to Macedon, previously called Emathia or Thrace.

    Son of Zeus:
    The seventh fragment of the Hesiodic Catalogue of Women, quoted by Constantine Porphyrogenitus, states: " Macedonia the country was named after Makedon, the son of Zeus and Thyia, daughter of Deucalion, as the poet Hesiod relates; and she became pregnant and bore to thunder-loving Zeus, two sons, Magnes and Macedon, the horse lover, those who dwelt in mansions around Pieria and Olympus ". The poetic epithet " hippiocharmes " can alternatively be translated as " fighting on horseback " or " chariot-fighter " and has also been attributed to Aeolus son of Hellen, Troilus and Amythaon. A fragment of the Macedonian historian Marsyas of Pella (4th century BC), through a scholiast of Iliad xiv 226 confirms the genealogy as found in the Catalogue of Women: " Makedon son of Zeus and Thyia, conquered the land then belonging to Thrace and he called it Macedonia after his name. He married a local woman and got two sons, Pierus and Amathus; two cities, Pieria and Amathia in Macedonia were founded or named after them ". The rare name of his mother Thyia, has been corrupted in transmission to Aithria or Aithyia through the phrase " kai Thyias, and Thyia ". Thyia in the Delphic tradition was an eponym naiad of the Thyiades, alternative name of the Maenads in the cult of Dionysus, certainly practiced also in Macedonia.

    The mythological chronologization of the Hesiodean passage indicates a time before the Trojan War and Iliad, since then the Magnetes dwell in Magnesia, Thessaly.[13] The Catalogue of Women, which is variously dated mostly between the 8th and 6th century BC, provides the earliest and only reference to a Macedonian element before the 5th century BC historiography.

    Historical homeland of the Macedonians

    Approximate Ancient Kingdom with modern borders:


    The Macedonian sun, or the 'Sun of Vergina'





    The Vergina Sun (also known as the Star of Vergina, Macedonian Star, or Argead Star) is a rayed solar symbol appearing in ancient Greek art from the 6th to 2nd centuries BC. It came to prominence following archaeological excavations in and around the small town of Vergina, in northern Greece, during the late 1970s. There it was depicted on a golden larnax found in a 4th-century BC royal tomb belonging to either Philip II or Philip III of Macedon, the father and half-brother of Alexander the Great, respectively.

    A Greek hoplite with an eight-pointed sun on his left shoulder . Side A of an Ancient Greek Attic red-figure belly-amphora, 500–490 BC, from Vulci, Italy.


    The Greek godness Cybele with the sun of Macedonia


    Hellenistic era: Philippos and Alexander the Great

    Philip's son, Alexander the Great (356–323 BC), managed to briefly extend Macedonian power not only over the central Greek city-states by becoming Hegemon of the League of Corinth (also known as the "Hellenic League"), but also to the Persian empire, including Egypt and lands as far east as the fringes of India. Alexander helped spread the Greek culture and learning through his vast empire. Although the empire fractured into multiple Hellenic regimes shortly after his death, his conquests left a lasting legacy, not least in the new Greek-speaking cities founded across Persia's western territories, heralding the Hellenistic period. In the partition of Alexander's empire among the Diadochi, Macedonia fell to the Antipatrid dynasty, which was overthrown by the Antigonid dynasty after only a few years, in 294 BC.

    The Macedonian empire:


    The Greek world under Alexander the Great's kingdom



    ...

    ...

    Macedonia and the macedonians in the Greek revolution of 1821



    The economic ascent of Thessaloniki and of the other urban centres of Macedonia coincided with the cultural and political renaissance of the Greeks. The ideals and patriotic songs of Rigas Feraios and others had made a profound impression upon the Thessalonians. Α few years later, the revolutionary fervour of the southern Greeks was to spread to these parts, and the seeds of Filiki Eteria were speedily to take root. The leader and coordinator of the revolution in Macedonia was Emmanouel Pappas from the village of Dobista, Serres, who was initiated into the Filiki Eteria in 1819. Papas had considerable influence over the local Ottoman authorities, especially the local governor, Ismail Bey, and offered much of his personal wealth for the cause.

    +info


    Pavlos Melas and the Macedonian Struggle

    The Macedonian Struggle (Greek: Μακεδονικὸς Ἀγών) or Greek Struggle in Macedonia Bulgarian: Гръцка въоръжена пропаганда в Македония, "Greek armed propaganda in Macedonia") was a series of social, political, cultural and military conflicts between Greeks and Bulgarians in the region of Ottoman Macedonia between 1904 and 1908. The conflict was part of a wider rebel war in which revolutionary organizations of Greeks, Bulgarians, Serbs, Aromanians and Albanians all fought over Macedonia. Gradually the Greek bands gained the upper hand, but the conflict was ended by the Young Turk Revolution in 1908.

    In 1894, a bulgarian organization known as the Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization (IMRO) was founded by Bulgarian anti-Ottoman revolutionaries in Thessaloníki, with the aim of liberating Macedonia and Thrace from Ottoman rule.

    Initially IMRO was declared as a Bulgarian organization, but later it was opened to all ethnic groups in Macedonia (Bulgarians and Greeks) and IMRO claimed that it was fighting for the autonomy of Macedonia and not for annexation to Bulgaria. In practice, most of the followers of the IMRO were Bulgarians, though they also had some Aromanian supporters, like Pitu Guli, Mitre The Vlach, Ioryi Mucitano and Alexandar Coshca. Many of the members of the organization saw Macedonian autonomy as an intermediate step to unification with Bulgaria, but others saw as their aim the creation of a Balkan federal state, with Macedonia as an equal member.

    Already from 1895, armed bands of Komitadjis were formed in Bulgaria in order to reinforce the activities of IMRO in Macedonia. One of their first activities was the capture of the predominantly Greek town of Meleniko (today Melnik, Bulgaria), but they couldn't hold it for more than a few hours. Bulgarian bands destroyed the Pomak village of Dospat where they massacred local inhabitants. This kind of activity alerted Greeks and Serbians, who made a farce of the slogan "Macedonia to Macedonians". Thus, Serbia and especially Greece opposed the IMRO movement. The Greeks of Macedonia had no interest in autonomy, but desired enosis (union) with Greece, which cause was supported by the Greek government.

    The situation in Macedonia became heated and started to affect European public opinion. In April 1903, a group called Gemidzhii with some assistance from the IMRO blew up the French ship Guadalquivir and the Ottoman Bank in the harbour of Thessaloniki. In August 1903, IMRO managed to organise an uprising (the Ilinden-Preobrazhenie Uprising) in Macedonia and the Adrianople Vilayet. After the forming of the short-lived Krushevo Republic, the insurrection was suppressed by the Ottomans with the subsequent destruction of many villages and the devastation of large areas in Western Macedonia and around Kırk Kilise near Adrianople. The failure of the 1903 insurrection resulted in the eventual split of the IMARO into a left-wing (federalist) faction and a right-wing faction (centralists) which weakened the organization additionally.

    Macedonian Committee

    In order to strengthen Greek efforts for Macedonia, the Macedonian Committee (Μακεδονικό Κομιτάτο, Makedoniko Komitato) was formed in 1903, under the leadership of wealthy publisher Dimitrios Kalapothakis; its members included Ion Dragoumis and Pavlos Melas.[12]

    Under these conditions, in 1904 a vicious guerrilla war broke as response of IMRO activities between Bulgarian and Greek bands within Ottoman Macedonia. The Bishop of Kastoria, Germanos Karavangelis sent to Macedonia by the ambassador of Greece Nikolaos Mavrokordatos and the consul of Greece in Monastiri, Ion Dragoumis, realised that it was time to act in a more efficient way and started organising Greek opposition.

    While Dragoumis concerned himself with the financial organisation of the efforts, the central figure in the military struggle was the very capable Cretan officer Georgios Katehakis.[13] Katehakis later became a war hero in the Balkan Wars and World War I, and was Defense Minister in the interwar years. Bishop Germanos Karavangelis animated the Greek population against the IMRO and formed committees to promote the Greek national interests.

    Taking advantage of the internal political and personal disputes in IMRO, Katehakis and Karavangelis initially succeeded to recruit some IMRO former members and to organize guerrilla groups, that were later reinforced with people sent from Greece and thus were mainly composed of ex-officers of the Hellenic Army, volunteers brought from Crete, from the Mani area of the Peloponnese, as well as Macedonian Greeks, such as Evangelos Natsis from the village of Asprogia, Lazaros Apostolidis from Kastoria, Captain Giaglis from Ierissos, Konstantinos Kottas from the village of Roulia, Florina Prefecture (a former adherent of the IMRO), Michael Sionidis, Captain Ramnalis, Pantelis Papaioannou, Stefanos Papagalos from Veria, Dimitrios Dalipis from Kastoria, Pericles Drakos from Kavala, Christos Dellios, Christos Argyrakos and many more.

    The rebel fighters that fought for the Greek cause were known as Makedonomachoi (Greek: Μακεδονομάχοι; "Macedonian fighters"). They were portrayed by Greek writer Penelope Delta in her novel Τά μυστικά τοῦ Βάλτου (Ta Mystiká tou Váltou – The Secrets of the Swamp), as well as in the book of memoirs Ὁ Μακεδονικός Ἀγών (The Macedonian Struggle) by Germanos Karavangelis, while on the other side, the fighters of IMRO and their activities are depicted in the book Confessions of a Macedonian Bandit: A Californian in the Balkan Wars, written by Albert Sonnichsen, an American volunteer in the IMRO during the Macedonian Struggle.



    The makedonomachos Pavlos Melas:




    Ancient and modern Macedonia




    Historians talking about the Macedonia, Alexander the Great and the FYROM

    Last edited by Pausanias; 05-06-2015 at 04:15 PM.

  2. #2
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Last Online
    03-05-2024 @ 02:57 PM
    Ethnicity
    Martian
    Country
    Iceland
    Gender
    Posts
    1,666
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,501
    Given: 1,415

    2 Not allowed!

    Default

    90% of the modern state of FYROM doesnt even comprise ancient Macedonia, only the areas around Monastiri, Stromnitsa, and Gevgeli. All the important and original cities of Macedonia were inhabited by Greek speakers AKA Thessaloniki, Veria, Naoussa, Halkidiki, Serres, Drama, Kastoria etc... Actual Macedonian settlements, not places like Tetovo, Skopje, and Kumanovo, which are far out of the borders of the original territory.

  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Last Online
    10-08-2018 @ 01:31 PM
    Country
    Norway
    Gender
    Posts
    1,499
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 146
    Given: 108

    2 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcelow View Post
    90% of the modern state of FYROM doesnt even comprise ancient Macedonia, only the areas around Monastiri, Stromnitsa, and Gevgeli. All the important and original cities of Macedonia were inhabited by Greek speakers AKA Thessaloniki, Veria, Naoussa, Halkidiki, Serres, Drama, Kastoria etc... Actual Macedonian settlements, not places like Tetovo, Skopje, and Kumanovo, which are far out of the borders of the original territory.
    Todays FYROM together with Kosovo comprises ancient Dardania, who seem to of been Thraco-Illyrian people.

    Ancient Macedonians were also close to Epirotans. Alexanders mother was Epirotan, and Pelagonians were Epirotans. FYROMS are Bulgarians. No offence. I would also put some Albanians as descendants of ancient macedonians before FYROMS. I don't even understand how they managed to claim this identity :S

  4. #4
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Last Online
    @
    Country
    United States
    Region
    District of Columbia
    mtDNA
    H
    Taxonomy
    Mediterranean
    Politics
    Classic liberal
    Religion
    Atheist
    Gender
    Posts
    107,421
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 40,067
    Given: 10,740

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    People in FYROM are genetically close to Greeks anyway.

  5. #5
    Veteran Member Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"


    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    ..
    Country
    Brazil
    Gender
    Posts
    14,330
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,537
    Given: 1,428

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IberoHellenic
    Macedonia and the Macedonians: GREEK as fuck.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    People in FYROM are genetically close to Greeks anyway.


  6. #6
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Last Online
    07-09-2022 @ 06:33 PM
    Location
    Southern Europe
    Ethnicity
    Hellenic, Iberian
    Ancestry
    Iberia, Hellas
    Country
    Uruguay
    Y-DNA
    E-V13
    Gender
    Posts
    2,099
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 2,035
    Given: 1,241

    0 Not allowed!

    Default








  7. #7
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Last Online
    07-09-2022 @ 06:33 PM
    Location
    Southern Europe
    Ethnicity
    Hellenic, Iberian
    Ancestry
    Iberia, Hellas
    Country
    Uruguay
    Y-DNA
    E-V13
    Gender
    Posts
    2,099
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 2,035
    Given: 1,241

    0 Not allowed!

    Default


  8. #8
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Last Online
    07-09-2022 @ 06:33 PM
    Location
    Southern Europe
    Ethnicity
    Hellenic, Iberian
    Ancestry
    Iberia, Hellas
    Country
    Uruguay
    Y-DNA
    E-V13
    Gender
    Posts
    2,099
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 2,035
    Given: 1,241

    0 Not allowed!

    Default


  9. #9
    Member velikaslava123's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Last Online
    11-16-2016 @ 12:25 AM
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Slavic
    Ethnicity
    Macedonian/Serb/Croat
    Ancestry
    Yugoslavia, Russia
    Country
    Macedonia
    Politics
    Pan-Slavism
    Hero
    Josip Broz Tito, Peter the Great, Nikola Tesla
    Religion
    Orthodox Christian
    Gender
    Posts
    165
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 88
    Given: 31

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Well this same argument has been repeated 500 times, I personally believe the ancient shit is bullshit and the retarded government should stop propagating it, but as a name, we should keep the name, were in the Ottoman-defined region of Macedonia, that's all I'm gonna say on this subject, sick of the same argument 1000 times.

  10. #10
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Last Online
    04-26-2021 @ 02:52 AM
    Location
    Various Cruise ships, Also Agio Pnevma, Serres, Macedonia, Greece.
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Hellenic
    Ethnicity
    Hellenic
    Ancestry
    Greek with a whiff of Bulgarian
    Country
    Greece
    Taxonomy
    A typical Balkan bastard
    Politics
    Strictly Rational.
    Hero
    Θαλής ο Μιλήσιος
    Religion
    Freedom with responsibitities.
    Age
    42
    Gender
    Posts
    16,654
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 5,566
    Given: 4,506

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by velikaslava123 View Post
    Well this same argument has been repeated 500 times, I personally believe the ancient shit is bullshit and the retarded government should stop propagating it, but as a name, we should keep the name, were in the Ottoman-defined region of Macedonia, that's all I'm gonna say on this subject, sick of the same argument 1000 times.
    There was no Ottoman defined region of Macedonia. The Ottomans did never use the name Macedonia officially. Check the sources:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilayet#Labelled_Map

    I think we need to repeat our arguments another 5.000 times in order for you to learn history, because apparently you weren't reading...

Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Adolf Hitler on Macedonia and the Macedonians
    By Crn Volk in forum Северна Македонија
    Replies: 60
    Last Post: 09-30-2014, 12:00 PM
  2. Who have more right to Macedonia? Macedonians or Greeks?
    By poiuytrewq0987 in forum Северна Македонија
    Replies: 187
    Last Post: 05-29-2014, 11:51 PM
  3. Who have more right to Macedonia? Macedonians or Greeks?
    By poiuytrewq0987 in forum Ελλάδα
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 07-19-2012, 06:37 PM
  4. Ancient Macedonians were not Greek
    By Optimus in forum Северна Македонија
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 06-16-2012, 12:00 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •