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Thread: Scandinavia before the Indo European expansion?

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    Veteran Member Wild North's Avatar
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    According to some theories, before the arrival of Indo Europeans, Scandinavia had an Uralic/ or Finno-Ugric speaking population. The so called Germanic substrate hypothesis; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germani...ate_hypothesis

    And perhaps we should explain the Scandinavian blondness as coming from Finno-Ugrics, and not Indo Europeans.
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    Veteran Member Äijä's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wild North View Post
    According to some theories, before the arrival of Indo Europeans, Scandinavia had an Uralic/ or Finno-Ugric speaking population. The so called Germanic substrate hypothesis; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germani...ate_hypothesis

    And perhaps we should explain the Scandinavian blondness as coming from Finno-Ugrics, and not Indo Europeans.
    The paleo populations where most likely not Uralic, Baltic Finnic and Sami spread at about the same time with Germanic in Fennoscandia.
    "If the enemy is not attacking from the East it has flanked." Finnish proverb


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xu8D9GaQwIs

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    The Oxus civilization (also known as BMAC), Yaz, and the Andronovo culture, were Indo-Iranian speakers.

    Indo-Iranians from those cultures realtively early on established contact with the Kassites:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kassites

    The Kassites lived on the other side of Kopet Dag, and spoke a Non-Indo-European Kassite language:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopet_Dag

    I made a map showing the earliest attested languages of the Middle East:

    http://s18.postimg.org/bhimmtk3d/Anc..._Languages.png


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    Veteran Member Wild North's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post
    The paleo populations where most likely not Uralic, Baltic Finnic and Sami spread at about the same time with Germanic in Fennoscandia.
    Well, this is what f. ex Kalevi Wiik claims.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wild North View Post
    Well, this is what f. ex Kalevi Wiik claims.
    It is more like his personal belief, there is no scientific support for this theories.
    "If the enemy is not attacking from the East it has flanked." Finnish proverb


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xu8D9GaQwIs

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    And perhaps we should explain the Scandinavian blondness as coming from Finno-Ugrics, and not Indo Europeans.
    I'm preparing a chart with DNA and pigmentation of R1a Indo-Iranian and Tocharian populations of the Metal Ages. They had quite a lot of blonds (not all populations, but most), so other R1a groups could also have them. But blondness could also come later, e.g. with Vikings kidnapping blond girls and transporting them back to Scandinavia.

    But it seems that blond-haired people existed and were quite widespread in Northern and Eastern Europe already in Mesolithic times. So I would not associate blondness with just one specific ethno-linguistic group.

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    ...
    Last edited by igo112; 06-04-2015 at 10:46 PM.

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    Swedish Professor Åke Daun[4] say that the Turkic Huns were the ruling elite of the Goths and started to worship them.

    Surely , this can't be right , right ?




    Excavations

    The excavations performed in Tanais, near the entry of the Don into the Black Sea, have shown that Tanais actually did have a population at the time of the supposed emigration of the Æsir[citation needed] (sometime around 60 B.C., according to Heyerdahl's interpretation of the references to Roman expansion into the Caucasus).[citation needed] That there was a city there at that time, had also been shown by previous archaeological excavations. Heyerdahl also claimed that findings and Russian written sources[citation needed] from the Caucasus area verify not only the existence of the Æsir or the Iranian Ossetians; whom he described as "the Odin people of today"[citation needed]—but also of an ancient tribe[citation needed] living around the area of Lake Van in today's Turkey.
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    "Tyr, who was a patron god of battle, law, war and bravery, is one of the oldest of the Norse gods"


    Every CaucASIAN has an inner ASIAN .

    All " White People " are CAUCASIANS .

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    There are no names for languages of Old European hunter-gatherers, and we will probably never learn much about them.

    I would simply call them "Old European languages".

    Certainly some loan words, placenames (toponyms), etc. present in languages spoken in Europe today, originate from them.

    I suppose that there was not a single language, but that each clan or tribe or group spoke its own language - like in Australia:

    http://historum.com/european-history...xpansions.html

    More about languages spoken by Australian Aborigines (all of whom were of course hunter-gatherers or foragers):

    http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?i...iew=1up;seq=15



    But this excerpt is actually not telling the whole story. Those Australian Aborigine tribes did exchange genes - mostly through stealing or trading of women. But despite exchange (often not peaceful) of women between clans, they still maintained their characteristic looks.

    =========================================

    BTW - hunters typically migrated over vast areas during their lifetimes. For example a study on famous Kennewick Man - who was buried near Kennewick in the State of Washington - proves that he was probably born close to the Pacific Coast. His diet suggests that he was eating sea marine mammals during most of his life, and he must have lived at the Pacific Ocean at that time. Yet he ded far away from the coast.

    And anthropologically, Kennewick Man was similar to the Ainu of Japan.

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