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Thread: Celts a Mediterranean people?

  1. #221
    https://lasxtribus.wordpress.com DNA doesnt lie BarcelonaAtlantis's Avatar
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    USAApocalypse 12:9:"The great dragon was thrown down - the ancient serpent called the devil, or satan, which deceives the whole world".“King Arthur was a prince of the Silures, the son of Uther,named Pendragon, paramount over the many kings of Britain" http://www.knology.net/~susanclk/ “The Silures were identical with the dark long-headed Basque people found in the Pyrenees,which were the Iberians" http://www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/celts_6.html

  2. #222
    Senior Member Fantomas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grace O'Malley View Post
    With your first statement you are just going off Tacitus I presume. So that means to you that they are med. Even if Tacitus thought the Silures looked like Spanish that doesn't mean they were. Tacitus was never even in Britain and also his geography was very suss. He believed that Spain was opposite Wales and that Ireland was lying between them. So really you have to take some of these older sources as not exactly gospel. The Romans also thought the Scots were all red heads but we know genetically that the Scots and Welsh are very closely related. We also know that those populations haven't changed much to the present day.
    It's impossible to say what lands Tacitus visited personally. But it doens't mean that he did not know what he wrote about. At least he was married to the daughter of Britain's governor. And yes he's right about Ireland's location. If you read his text carefully you would not have to be surprised

    In the fifth year of the war Agricola, himself in the leading ship, crossed the Clota, and subdued in a series of victories tribes hitherto unknown. In that part of Britain which looks towards Ireland, he posted some troops, hoping for fresh conquests rather than fearing attack, inasmuch as Ireland, being between Britain and Spain and conveniently situated for the seas round Gaul



    But, nevermind i understand your point that all of the ancient authors, including Irish did not know what were they writing about. That's it.


    Regarding your 2nd sentence who are the ancient Celts? Who are you comparing what to?
    Nordic Iron age and Med. cranial

    Also what proof do you have for no 3. I don't agree with what you say at all. I know from Irish history that the people they were involved with were primarily the Scots, Welsh, Angles, Vikings and Normans and the latter day English. Likewise all British Isles populations were dealing with the same people. England and Wales were part of the Roman Empire but Scotland and Ireland were not.
    I'm talking about pre-historic archaeology

    Regarding ydna L21 is present in France, Germany etc but the oldest so far has been found in England. I have no doubt they will find older L21 on the Continent with time. What you might not be aware of is that the majority subclade in Iberia is DF27 and guess where the oldest DF27 has been found? Yes German Bell Beaker

    R1b wasn't found in the Neolithic. It only became dominant in the Bronze Age.
    OK, the next question. how many ancient samples there're from Ireland, England, Iberia for 3000-2500 BC?

    I'm sure I've linked these studies before but no one can discuss this topic until they read these studies. Now Bell Beaker was not Celtic but I do believe the Celts grew out of later post Bell Beaker cultures like Unetice.

    You will find this quote in the paper below. The paper is called The Beaker Phenomenon and the Genomic Transformation of Northwest Europe which says it all really.





    They also found no Steppe dna in the earlier neolithic people but plenty in the Bell Beakers.

    http://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorx...35962.full.pdf

    If you want to read up on what happened in Portugal this is an excellent paper.

    The Population Genomics Of Archaeological Transition In West Iberia

    http://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorx...34254.full.pdf

    You really need to take an interest in these newer dna studies to understand what happened in the past.
    We've talked about it so many times that it makes no sense did it again. All these works are very important and very necessary, but scientific value of the pseudo-archaeological/ historical conclusions based on such a scanty data is close to zero.
    Last edited by Fantomas; 08-22-2017 at 02:57 AM.
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  3. #223
    Senior Member Fantomas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brennus dux gallorum View Post
    Fantomas for God sake how can you compare modern British populations with south Europeans? Even northern Germans are genetically closer to South Europe than brits to South Europe
    I'm afraid i'll never get the unswer to such a simple question how this method of correlation, between mtdna set and pigmentation level, works?

    We can also add the linguistic and prehistoric cultural connection of celts with Mediterraneans, which related ancient celts more with south Europeans than with germanics, during the antiquity
    Absolutely agree



    Ancient celtic speakers, were a different case, and for sure those who occupied nearly half of South Europe and many in central Europe were genetically closer to southern Europe
    But modern celtic survivors (British celts) are definitely closer to northern Europe and absolutely not Mediterranean
    You must be surprised, but modern British population have more Mediterranean dna admixture, than in Iron Age

    The only sure is that all ie populations were equally originated from the steppe, and celts were not exception
    Sure for whom, M.Gimbutas, W.Haak ?!
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