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Thread: I Love Real Turks; Real = Muslim

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    Quote Originally Posted by Witness View Post
    Abbassids were moderate Sunnis, Seljuks became moderate much later they were Wahabbi-like in the beginning when they started to invade the ME. They attacked the ME to fight Fatimids and Buheyvids who were Shias and Batinids. Turks were pagans who converted, in beginning when they convert, masses of people are very religious. The mass of people convert to remain part of the group this is true but the first Muslim Turks who converted to Islam really believed then converted rest of their race. This is how a handful believers ruled over huge masses in history.
    The Seljukid Turks, had nothing in common with the descendants of the Umayyad dynasty(in other words the present day Wahhabis and other Sunni groups). The Seljukid Turks believed in the Real Islam of Hazreti Muhammed(S.A.V.). Their sect was a Muslim sect builded by the public leaders like Mansur al-Halladj(858 - 922), Khoja Akhmet Yassawi(1093-1166) and Haji Bektash Veli(1209 - 1271). This sect was later(in the following centuries) called the "Alevi" sect in Anatolia. The Alevi sect of the Seljukids is a Turk nationalist Islamic sect, which preserved the traditions of the old "Sky TENGRI" religion as a part of the Turk culture, and believed in the Real Islam of our Prophet Hazreti Muhammed(S.A.V.).

    On the contrary, the Sunni Umayyad descendants were the ones that killed all the descendants of Hazreti Muhammed(S.A.V.) and used the Islam in a bad intended way for the gaining of political and economical power, which is the reason why Khazar Turks, Selcukid Turks and Memluk Turks battled and took over the regions which were earlier under Umayyad and Abbasid rule. The Sunni Umayyad descendants changed the Real Islam of our Prophet Hazreti Muhammed(S.A.V.), with their faked up hadiths which tells false information regarding the principles of our Prophet Hazreti Muhammed(S.A.V.). The Sunni Umayyad descendants in fact created a new religion called the "Umayyad Religion", which is not equal to the Real Islam.

    The "Sky TENGRI" religion was a religion based on 1 Single ALLAH, it has nothing in common with Paganism, and so is NOT equal to the belief of multiple GODS, and is also NOT a religion in which worshipping of objects were performed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anglojew View Post
    Muslims are fake Turks. Rejoin the true Jewish religion of your Khazar ancestors.
    Burn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Witness View Post
    Abbassids were moderate Sunnis, Seljuks became moderate much later they were Wahabbi-like in the beginning when they started to invade the ME. They attacked the ME to fight Fatimids and Buheyvids who were Shias and Batinids. Turks were pagans who converted, in beginning when they convert, masses of people are very religious. The mass of people convert to remain part of the group this is true but the first Muslim Turks who converted to Islam really believed then converted rest of their race. This is how a handful believers ruled over huge masses in history.
    Invasion of ME had not much to do with the Islamic ideals. Subjects of Seljuqs were symbolically Muslim. We know that. Tengristic customs were still strong among them, they were just following the orders. Even in the Ottoman empire many people (peasants, villagers, lower class etc) didn't practasing mainstream Sunni Islam, they had some sort of mixed Islamic understanding. So you can't compare them with the ISIS.
    Last edited by Pennywise; 07-12-2015 at 10:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ölüezgi View Post
    Invasion of ME had not much to do with the Islamic ideals. Subjects of Seljuqs were symbolically Muslim. We know that. Tengristic customs were still strong among them, they were just following the orders. Even in the Ottoman empire many people (peasants, villagers, lower class etc) didn't practasing mainstream Sunni Islam, they had some sort of mixed Islamic understanding. So you can't compare them with the ISIS.
    I referred to state official religion otherwise nomads dont have religious life styles this is right. They cant as their life style cant accommodate this sort of lifestyle. Also Tengrism was ideologically dead, if it was something that worked they wouldn't leave it in the first place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by acatziri View Post
    The Seljukid Turks, had nothing in common with the descendants of the Umayyad dynasty(in other words the present day Wahhabis and other Sunni groups). The Seljukid Turks believed in the Real Islam of Hazreti Muhammed(S.A.V.). Their sect was a Muslim sect builded by the public leaders like Mansur al-Halladj(858 - 922), Khoja Akhmet Yassawi(1093-1166) and Haji Bektash Veli(1209 - 1271). This sect was later(in the following centuries) called the "Alevi" sect in Anatolia. The Alevi sect of the Seljukids is a Turk nationalist Islamic sect, which preserved the traditions of the old "Sky TENGRI" religion as a part of the Turk culture, and believed in the Real Islam of our Prophet Hazreti Muhammed(S.A.V.).

    On the contrary, the Sunni Umayyad descendants were the ones that killed all the descendants of Hazreti Muhammed(S.A.V.) and used the Islam in a bad intended way for the gaining of political and economical power, which is the reason why Khazar Turks, Selcukid Turks and Memluk Turks battled and took over the regions which were earlier under Umayyad and Abbasid rule. The Sunni Umayyad descendants changed the Real Islam of our Prophet Hazreti Muhammed(S.A.V.), with their faked up hadiths which tells false information regarding the principles of our Prophet Hazreti Muhammed(S.A.V.). The Sunni Umayyad descendants in fact created a new religion called the "Umayyad Religion", which is not equal to the Real Islam.

    The "Sky TENGRI" religion was a religion based on 1 Single ALLAH, it has nothing in common with Paganism, and so is NOT equal to the belief of multiple GODS, and is also NOT a religion in which worshipping of objects were performed.

    Then why Seljuks fought Fatimids and Buheyvids with so much passion? The mass of Turks didnt really practice any religion as they were nomads. However descendants of Seljuk, the rulers were like 'Umayyads, as you call them, Mutazilah.They brought Turks here with those ideals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Witness View Post
    Then why Seljuks fought Fatimids and Buheyvids with so much passion? The mass of Turks didnt really practice any religion as they were nomads. However descendants of Seljuk, the rulers were like 'Umayyads, as you call them, Mutazilah.They brought Turks here with those ideals.
    Sunni Islam has nothing to do with the Ummyads who were dynasty that was in fact related to Muhammed and Ali since they also belonged from the same tribe just a different clan. The clan name was Ummyah, well Muhammed and Ali were from the Banu Hashim clan and both were from the Quryash tribe. Shiaism itself appeared in Yemen and believed that people with the lineage of Muhammed should rule the Islamic community. This was not agreed upon and people began electing officials hence the four Caliphs. The Shia theological movement originated in Iraq with the political discourse especially during the reign of Hussien. At this time many Arabs adhered to Shia thought and theology. Sunnism would expand once again mostly due to the Crusaders and the rise of Saladin. Also Shiaism being transported east is due to this. The Seljuks for example had a significant battle in Mosul with the Bani Uqyal Bedouins who adhered to Shiaism, well they were Sunni, the Bani Uqyal managed to defeat them at one of the battles which is believed to have continued Mosul to be an Arab speaking area. It gets more complex than that, that Shiaism was even brought by Bedouins into North Africa in the Banu Hilal invasions, since the Zirid Berbers left it and converted to Sunnism which lead the invasion in the first place. It was this invasion that Arabized North Africa in an ultimate fashion, however the Banu Hilal and kindered Arab Shia tribes were swallowed up and even converted to the faith that the Zirid chose. That's the real historical element here. The shifting of sects among the Arabians was not a new one and happened a lot depending on the context and political as well cultural landscape, and the Ummyad probably had no sect at all, until the end of their dynasty, and none of the Ummyad individuals ever had role in the formation of theological elements in Islam other than politics.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nabatea1 View Post
    Sunni Islam has nothing to do with the Ummyads who were dynasty that was in fact related to Muhammed and Ali since they also belonged from the same tribe just a different clan. The clan name was Ummyah, well Muhammed and Ali were from the Banu Hashim clan and both were from the Quryash tribe. Shiaism itself appeared in Yemen and believed that people with the lineage of Muhammed should rule the Islamic community. This was not agreed upon and people began electing officials hence the four Caliphs. The Shia theological movement originated in Iraq with the political discourse especially during the reign of Hussien. At this time many Arabs adhered to Shia thought and theology. Sunnism would expand once again mostly due to the Crusaders and the rise of Saladin. Also Shiaism being transported east is due to this. The Seljuks for example had a significant battle in Mosul with the Bani Uqyal Bedouins who adhered to Shiaism, well they were Sunni, the Bani Uqyal managed to defeat them at one of the battles which is believed to have continued Mosul to be an Arab speaking area. It gets more complex than that, that Shiaism was even brought by Bedouins into North Africa in the Banu Hilal invasions, since the Zirid Berbers left it and converted to Sunnism which lead the invasion in the first place. It was this invasion that Arabized North Africa in an ultimate fashion, however the Banu Hilal and kindered Arab Shia tribes were swallowed up and even converted to the faith that the Zirid chose. That's the real historical element here. The shifting of sects among the Arabians was not a new one and happened a lot depending on the context and political as well cultural landscape, and the Ummyad probably had no sect at all, until the end of their dynasty, and none of the Ummyad individuals ever had role in the formation of theological elements in Islam other than politics.
    I know about Umayyads, acazitri used the Shia rethorics as Shias refer to Sunni Islam as the Ummayads religion. There were Oghuz Turkmens settlements in Mosul and North Iraq area long before Seljuks but they never became majority to Change the language I think. Banu Ukyal victory against Seljuks must not been decisive as in 1069, Alp Arslan was already besieging Aleppo controlled by Fatimis which is a lot more west than Mosul. Or maybe it happened later

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    Quote Originally Posted by Witness View Post
    Then why Seljuks fought Fatimids and Buheyvids with so much passion? The mass of Turks didnt really practice any religion as they were nomads. However descendants of Seljuk, the rulers were like 'Umayyads, as you call them, Mutazilah.They brought Turks here with those ideals.
    World Conquest, it is a Turk nationalist movement, ruling a state has nothing to do with religion, it has to do with politics. You have to look at how the populations are organized(living styles, the effects and power of the public leaders, the peacefull and justice relations between the state/dynasty, public leaders and the population) after the conquest of the regions by the Seljukids. The states of the Seljukids and also the first period of Ottomans, had an organized system which relied on the public leaders that believed and conducted the "Alevi" system principles whom were created by Mansur al-Halladj(858 - 922), Khoja Akhmet Yassawi(1093-1166) and Haji Bektash Veli(1209 - 1271). The Seljukid and Ottoman dynasties and their Turk Army conquers a region, then the Alevi public sect leaders spreaded humanism, peace and equal rights to the complete population(without any kind of racism), based on the mixed principles of the Older Turk Culture and the Real Islam of our Prophet Hazreti Muhammed(S.A.V.)(is equal to the Ehli-Beyt Principles and the fact that Hazreti Ali having been ordered by our Prophet Hazreti Muhammed to be the First Caliph).

    The Seljukid dynasty believed first in the Judaism religion, when they were part of the Khazar Turk Empire. The names of the first Seljukid Sultans showed clearly that they were believing in the Judaism religion. The names of the associated Seljukid Sultans were Arslan/Israil/Israel Yabgu(1032), Musa/Moses Yabgu(1047), Mikail Yabgu(1037), Yınal/Yusuf/Joseph Yabgu. The first Seljukid dynasty was part of the Khazars, and later part of the Oghuz Yabgu state, and later they became an independent state.

    Looking at the Wars between the Khazars and the Umayyads and Abbasids, we can see that it was the Khazar dynasty whom caused for the indirect collapse of the Umayyad dynasty and the begin of the Abbasid dynasty. Since the Seljukid dynasty was part of the Khazars, it means that the Seljukids were enemies with the Umayyads and the Abbasids.



    Later, when the Fatimid and Buhayvi states became stronger, the Abbasid state was weakened, doomed to fall apart, and sought help of the Seljukid dynasty. The goal of the Seljukid dynasty was World Conquest, so they used the Abbasid dynasty as a symbolic puppet, and became the real ruler and took control of the regions earlier ruled by the Abbasids. The Abbasid dynasty had no military and political power anymore, they were only functioning as symbolic puppets for the Seljukid Empire. Hereby, the Seljukids expanded their Empire.

    At the beginning of the period of between the 10th-13th centuries AD, the Seljukid Turk population believed in the Sky TENGRI religion. The Turk population became little by little Muslims because of their believe in the principles of Mansur al-Halladj(858 - 922), Khoja Akhmet Yassawi(1093-1166) and Haji Bektash Veli(1209 - 1271). We must accept the fact that the reason the Seljukid dynasty changed religions was for political world conquest reasons. Just like the transition of the Seljukid dynasty to the Judaism, the transition to the Islam, were both performed for political world conquest reasons. The principles of Mansur al-Halladj(858 - 922), Khoja Akhmet Yassawi(1093-1166) and Haji Bektash Veli(1209 - 1271) were the fundamental principles which caused for the real Islamic believe among the Turks and defined to which Islamic sect the Seljukids(also other Turk populations like the Karakhanids) and their Turk population belonged to.

    Lets describe the contents of the principles of the sect created by Mansur al-Halladj(858 - 922), Khoja Akhmet Yassawi(1093-1166) and Haji Bektash Veli(1209 - 1271) in a simple understandable way:

    1. "The Conducting of Turk Nationalism, which includes Talking and Writing in the Turk Language, Defending the Old Turk Culture and Historical Values, World Conquest, Peace and making the Sky TENGRI religion a part of the Turk cultural traditions, "

    2. "The Believe in the Real Islamic principles of our Prophet Hazreti Muhammed(S.A.V.) and Hazreti Ali, and the Hate Against the Umayyads, the Sunni Umayyad religion(Fake Islam) and their followers who massacred all descendants(Ehl-i Beyt / Ahl al-Bayt) of our Prophet Hazreti Muhammed(S.A.V.) and Hazreti Ali only for the goal of increasing their personal/dynasty political and economical power"

    These fundamentals were the ones that builded the beginning of the Ottoman Empire(1299-1918). The Yeniçeri(Janissaries) Armed Forces builded the Ottoman state together with the first Ottoman sultans. The Yeniçeri(Janissaries) Armed Forces was an Army build upon the principles of Haji Bektash Veli(1209 - 1271)(which is based on the principles of earlier Khoja Akhmet Yassawi(1093-1166), which is based on the principles of earlier Mansur al-Halladj(858 - 922) ). Why do you think that Khoja Akhmet Yassawi(1093-1166) was sentimentally very important for the Cingizids and the Timurid dynasties?

    The Seljukids were the ones that brought down(put an end to) the Abbasid Empire. The Abbasids performed many unsuccesful riots against the Seljukid Rule. How could the Seljukids be Sunni or even friends(feel sympathy for their principles) with the Abbasids, if the Abbasids rebelled against the Seljukids? How could the Seljukids be really Sunni, if they took control over the final Abbasid state of the Umayyads and made a useless puppet of the Abbasid dynasty? How could the Seljukid dynasty whom were earlier Judaism believers be Sunni, if their Oghuz Turkmen population and the Seljukid public leaders believed in the Turk-Islamic principles of Mansur al-Halladj(858 - 922), Khoja Akhmet Yassawi(1093-1166) and Haji Bektash Veli(1209 - 1271)?

    To give an important example of the Seljukid dynasty sultans:

    "Seljukid Sultan Ahmed Sencer(1086 - 1157), showed his loyalty to Yusuf El-Hemedânî(1048-1140) at each occasion. Who was this Yusuf El-Hemedânî? Yusuf El-Hemedânî was the teacher of Khoja Akhmet Yassawi(1093-1166). The graves of both Yusuf El-Hemedânî and Seljukid Sultan Ahmed Sencer are located in Turkmenistan-Merv."

    So, how could the Seljukid dynasty believe in the Sunni Umayyad religion(Fake Islam), if Seljukid Sultan Ahmed Sencer believed in and fully followed the principles of Khoja Akhmet Yassawi(1093-1166), which is 100% against the Sunni Umayyad religion(Fake Islam)?

    By the way, not to forget to mention the fact that Ebu Hanife(699-767) hated the Fake Islamic principles of the Umayyad dynasty(=Sunni).

    The Ayyubids were allies of the Seljukids, and they put an end to the Sii Fatimid state. The Seljukids put an end to the Sunni Abbasid state. Both the armies and population of the Sii Fatimid state and the Sunni Abbasid state were associated and full with many Turk tribes and dynasties like the Tolunid Turks and the Mamluk Turks.

    In fact, the Seljukid dynasty and the later Ottoman(follower of Seljukids), Cingizid and Timurid dynasties united all Muslims within a peaceful rule of Turk empires. The beginning of the Ottoman dynasty, the Safavids and Timurids were the ones that made the Principles of Mansur al-Halladj(858 - 922), Khoja Akhmet Yassawi(1093-1166) and Haji Bektash Veli(1209 - 1271) (Principles of the Real Islam and the Real Turk Nationalism) the official constitution of the Turk states/empires which caused for the union of all Muslims, but later ended in a fight between several Turk dynasties.

    We see now, that the Umayyads and the Abbasids were the representives of the Fake-Islam. But what about the Fatimids?

    -Hazreti Muhammed(S.A.V.): 570-632
    -Hazreti Ali(Ali bin Ebû Talib): 599 — 661

    Sons and Grandsons of Hazreti Ali:

    -Hasan ibn Ali: 625–670
    -Husayn ibn Ali: 626–680
    -Ali ibn Husayn Zayn al-Abidin: 659 - 713

    Ismailiye Sect Builders:

    -Ca'fer es-Sâdık(Son of Muhammed el-Bakır, grandson of Zayn al-Abidin): 699 - 765
    -İsmâil bin Câ'fer el-Mûbarek(Son of Ca'fer es-Sâdık): 719 - 762

    Fatimid State:

    Fatimid State: 909 - 1171: Founded by Abdullah al-Mahdi Billah(Muhammed Mehdi)(Abd-Allāh/Obayd-Allāh al-Mahdī)(Followers of İsmâil bin Câ'fer el-Mûbarek, and descendants of Ca'fer es-Sâdık)
    First of all, between the Fatimid State and İsmâil bin Câ'fer el-Mûbarek and Ca'fer es-Sâdık(also killed by the Umayyads/Abbasids) is 144 years, which is a long period of time. The Umayyad dynasty killed most ruling descendants of Hazreti Muhammed(S.A.V.) and Hazreti Ali. Thats why the equalness of the principles of the Fatimids with the principles of Ca'fer es-Sâdık and İsmâil bin Câ'fer el-Mûbarek(latest final ruling descendants of Hazreti Muhammed(S.A.V.) )is very debatable and doubtful.

    Lets analyze an important example showing the character of the Fatimid state:

    "
    The Fatimid state allied with and trusted the Christian Crusaders and the Christian Byzantine state, against the Muslim Seljukids, during the First Crusade (1096-99). While the Muslim Seljukids were busy with their succesfull battle against the Christian Crusaders, the Fatimid state had chosen to be on the side of the Christian Crusaders.

    The main evidence for the alliance between the Christian Crusaders and the Muslim Fatimids lies in a delegation the Fatimids sent to the Crusaders while they were camped outside Antioch. Albert of Aachen, for example, describes how the Fatimid ruler, "sent fifteen envoys who were skilled in different languages to the army of the living God, about a mutual alliance for peace and his kingdom."

    This shows that religion has nothing to do with the ruling of a state. It is all about the political and economical power. Why would the Muslim Fatimid state form an alliance with the Christian Crusaders(whom wants to kill all Muslims) and the Byzantines against the Muslim Seljukid Turks, if their goal was religious? Is this not the same kind of treason like the Umayyads and Abbasids performed earlier? Yes, it is.

    The Fatimid dynasty thought that if they trusted and allied with the Christian Crusaders, they could defeat the Muslim Seljukids, and share these Seljukid territories/regions(which were earlier ruled by the Muslim Seljukids) together with the Christian Crusaders. But, the fact is that this treason caused for the decreasing and end of the Fatimid state, because the Christian Crusaders did not act positively like the Fatimids were thinking. The Christian Crusaders hated all Muslims(wanted to kill all Muslims if possible, which was not possible of course), but the Muslim Fatimids preferred the Christians as allies in stead of the Muslim Seljukids. Later, the Ayyubids whom took the regions of earlier Fatimids, allied with the Seljukids against the Christian Crusaders, which resulted in a final victory of the Muslim Seljukids against the Christian Crusaders.
    "

    Source: Türkler ve Gerçek İslam

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    Quote Originally Posted by acatziri View Post
    World Conquest, it is a Turk nationalist movement, ruling a state has nothing to do with religion, it has to do with politics. You have to look at how the populations are organized(living styles, the effects and power of the public leaders, the peacefull and justice relations between the state/dynasty, public leaders and the population) after the conquest of the regions by the Seljukids. The states of the Seljukids and also the first period of Ottomans, had an organized system which relied on the public leaders that believed and conducted the "Alevi" system principles whom were created by Mansur al-Halladj(858 - 922), Khoja Akhmet Yassawi(1093-1166) and Haji Bektash Veli(1209 - 1271). The Seljukid and Ottoman dynasties and their Turk Army conquers a region, then the Alevi public sect leaders spreaded humanism, peace and equal rights to the complete population(without any kind of racism), based on the mixed principles of the Older Turk Culture and the Real Islam of our Prophet Hazreti Muhammed(S.A.V.)(is equal to the Ehli-Beyt Principles and the fact that Hazreti Ali having been ordered by our Prophet Hazreti Muhammed to be the First Caliph).

    The Seljukid dynasty believed first in the Judaism religion, when they were part of the Khazar Turk Empire. The names of the first Seljukid Sultans showed clearly that they were believing in the Judaism religion. The names of the associated Seljukid Sultans were Arslan/Israil/Israel Yabgu(1032), Musa/Moses Yabgu(1047), Mikail Yabgu(1037), Yınal/Yusuf/Joseph Yabgu. The first Seljukid dynasty was part of the Khazars, and later part of the Oghuz Yabgu state, and later they became an independent state.

    Looking at the Wars between the Khazars and the Umayyads and Abbasids, we can see that it was the Khazar dynasty whom caused for the indirect collapse of the Umayyad dynasty and the begin of the Abbasid dynasty. Since the Seljukid dynasty was part of the Khazars, it means that the Seljukids were enemies with the Umayyads and the Abbasids.

    Later, when the Fatimid and Buhayvi states became stronger, the Abbasid state was weakened, doomed to fall apart, and sought help of the Seljukid dynasty. The goal of the Seljukid dynasty was World Conquest, so they used the Abbasid dynasty as a symbolic puppet, and became the real ruler and took control of the regions earlier ruled by the Abbasids. The Abbasid dynasty had no military and political power anymore, they were only functioning as symbolic puppets for the Seljukid Empire. Hereby, the Seljukids expanded their Empire.

    At the beginning of the period of between the 10th-13th centuries AD, the Seljukid Turk population believed in the Sky TENGRI religion. The Turk population became little by little Muslims because of their believe in the principles of Mansur al-Halladj(858 - 922), Khoja Akhmet Yassawi(1093-1166) and Haji Bektash Veli(1209 - 1271). We must accept the fact that the reason the Seljukid dynasty changed religions was for political world conquest reasons. Just like the transition of the Seljukid dynasty to the Judaism, the transition to the Islam, were both performed for political world conquest reasons. The principles of Mansur al-Halladj(858 - 922), Khoja Akhmet Yassawi(1093-1166) and Haji Bektash Veli(1209 - 1271) were the fundamental principles which caused for the real Islamic believe among the Turks and defined to which Islamic sect the Seljukids(also other Turk populations like the Karakhanids) and their Turk population belonged to.

    Lets describe the contents of the principles of the sect created by Mansur al-Halladj(858 - 922), Khoja Akhmet Yassawi(1093-1166) and Haji Bektash Veli(1209 - 1271) in a simple understandable way:

    1. "The Conducting of Turk Nationalism, which includes Talking and Writing in the Turk Language, Defending the Old Turk Culture and Historical Values, World Conquest, Peace and making the Sky TENGRI religion a part of the Turk cultural traditions, "

    2. "The Believe in the Real Islamic principles of our Prophet Hazreti Muhammed(S.A.V.) and Hazreti Ali, and the Hate Against the Umayyads, the Sunni Umayyad religion(Fake Islam) and their followers who massacred all descendants(Ehl-i Beyt / Ahl al-Bayt) of our Prophet Hazreti Muhammed(S.A.V.) and Hazreti Ali only for the goal of increasing their personal/dynasty political and economical power"

    These fundamentals were the ones that builded the beginning of the Ottoman Empire(1299-1918). The Yeniçeri(Janissaries) Armed Forces builded the Ottoman state together with the first Ottoman sultans. The Yeniçeri(Janissaries) Armed Forces was an Army build upon the principles of Haji Bektash Veli(1209 - 1271)(which is based on the principles of earlier Khoja Akhmet Yassawi(1093-1166), which is based on the principles of earlier Mansur al-Halladj(858 - 922) ). Why do you think that Khoja Akhmet Yassawi(1093-1166) was sentimentally very important for the Cingizids and the Timurid dynasties?

    The Seljukids were the ones that brought down(put an end to) the Abbasid Empire. The Abbasids performed many unsuccesful riots against the Seljukid Rule. How could the Seljukids be Sunni or even friends(feel sympathy for their principles) with the Abbasids, if the Abbasids rebelled against the Seljukids? How could the Seljukids be really Sunni, if they took control over the final Abbasid state of the Umayyads and made a useless puppet of the Abbasid dynasty? How could the Seljukid dynasty whom were earlier Judaism believers be Sunni, if their Oghuz Turkmen population and the Seljukid public leaders believed in the Turk-Islamic principles of Mansur al-Halladj(858 - 922), Khoja Akhmet Yassawi(1093-1166) and Haji Bektash Veli(1209 - 1271)?

    To give an important example of the Seljukid dynasty sultans:

    "Seljukid Sultan Ahmed Sencer(1086 - 1157), showed his loyalty to Yusuf El-Hemedânî(1048-1140) at each occasion. Who was this Yusuf El-Hemedânî? Yusuf El-Hemedânî was the teacher of Khoja Akhmet Yassawi(1093-1166). The graves of both Yusuf El-Hemedânî and Seljukid Sultan Ahmed Sencer are located in Turkmenistan-Merv."

    So, how could the Seljukid dynasty believe in the Sunni Umayyad religion(Fake Islam), if Seljukid Sultan Ahmed Sencer believed in and fully followed the principles of Khoja Akhmet Yassawi(1093-1166), which is 100% against the Sunni Umayyad religion(Fake Islam)?

    By the way, not to forget to mention the fact that Ebu Hanife(699-767) hated the Fake Islamic principles of the Umayyad dynasty(=Sunni).

    The Ayyubids were allies of the Seljukids, and they put an end to the Sii Fatimid state. The Seljukids put an end to the Sunni Abbasid state. Both the armies and population of the Sii Fatimid state and the Sunni Abbasid state were associated and full with many Turk tribes and dynasties like the Tolunid Turks and the Mamluk Turks.

    In fact, the Seljukid dynasty and the later Ottoman(follower of Seljukids), Cingizid and Timurid dynasties united all Muslims within a peaceful rule of Turk empires. The beginning of the Ottoman dynasty, the Safavids and Timurids were the ones that made the Principles of Mansur al-Halladj(858 - 922), Khoja Akhmet Yassawi(1093-1166) and Haji Bektash Veli(1209 - 1271) (Principles of the Real Islam and the Real Turk Nationalism) the official constitution of the Turk states/empires which caused for the union of all Muslims, but later ended in a fight between several Turk dynasties.

    We see now, that the Umayyads and the Abbasids were the representives of the Fake-Islam. But what about the Fatimids?



    First of all, between the Fatimid State and İsmâil bin Câ'fer el-Mûbarek and Ca'fer es-Sâdık(also killed by the Umayyads/Abbasids) is 144 years, which is a long period of time. The Umayyad dynasty killed most ruling descendants of Hazreti Muhammed(S.A.V.) and Hazreti Ali. Thats why the equalness of the principles of the Fatimids with the principles of Ca'fer es-Sâdık and İsmâil bin Câ'fer el-Mûbarek(latest final ruling descendants of Hazreti Muhammed(S.A.V.) )is very debatable and doubtful.

    Lets analyze an important example showing the character of the Fatimid state:

    "
    The Fatimid state allied with and trusted the Christian Crusaders and the Christian Byzantine state, against the Muslim Seljukids, during the First Crusade (1096-99). While the Muslim Seljukids were busy with their succesfull battle against the Christian Crusaders, the Fatimid state had chosen to be on the side of the Christian Crusaders.

    The main evidence for the alliance between the Christian Crusaders and the Muslim Fatimids lies in a delegation the Fatimids sent to the Crusaders while they were camped outside Antioch. Albert of Aachen, for example, describes how the Fatimid ruler, "sent fifteen envoys who were skilled in different languages to the army of the living God, about a mutual alliance for peace and his kingdom."

    This shows that religion has nothing to do with the ruling of a state. It is all about the political and economical power. Why would the Muslim Fatimid state form an alliance with the Christian Crusaders(whom wants to kill all Muslims) and the Byzantines against the Muslim Seljukid Turks, if their goal was religious? Is this not the same kind of treason like the Umayyads and Abbasids performed earlier? Yes, it is.

    The Fatimid dynasty thought that if they trusted and allied with the Christian Crusaders, they could defeat the Muslim Seljukids, and share these Seljukid territories/regions(which were earlier ruled by the Muslim Seljukids) together with the Christian Crusaders. But, the fact is that this treason caused for the decreasing and end of the Fatimid state, because the Christian Crusaders did not act positively like the Fatimids were thinking. The Christian Crusaders hated all Muslims(wanted to kill all Muslims if possible, which was not possible of course), but the Muslim Fatimids preferred the Christians as allies in stead of the Muslim Seljukids. Later, the Ayyubids whom took the regions of earlier Fatimids, allied with the Seljukids against the Christian Crusaders, which resulted in a final victory of the Muslim Seljukids against the Christian Crusaders.
    "

    Source: Türkler ve Gerçek İslam
    The Seljuks were Sunni Muslims, whatever faith they had before Judaism or Christianity is no matter here. The fact also is that the Fatamids were a Shia Arab dynasty that followed the Ismaili branch. The Seljuks also fought with the 12er Imami Shia Arab Bedouins like the Banu Uyqal. The Kurdish Auyybuids who were Arabized chose Sunni Islam and revitalized it in Egypt and the regions they had under their control, and yes they allied with the Seljuks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by acatziri View Post
    World Conquest, it is a Turk nationalist movement, ruling a state has nothing to do with religion, it has to do with politics. You have to look at how the populations are organized(living styles, the effects and power of the public leaders, the peacefull and justice relations between the state/dynasty, public leaders and the population) after the conquest of the regions by the Seljukids. The states of the Seljukids and also the first period of Ottomans, had an organized system which relied on the public leaders that believed and conducted the "Alevi" system principles whom were created by Mansur al-Halladj(858 - 922), Khoja Akhmet Yassawi(1093-1166) and Haji Bektash Veli(1209 - 1271). The Seljukid and Ottoman dynasties and their Turk Army conquers a region, then the Alevi public sect leaders spreaded humanism, peace and equal rights to the complete population(without any kind of racism), based on the mixed principles of the Older Turk Culture and the Real Islam of our Prophet Hazreti Muhammed(S.A.V.)(is equal to the Ehli-Beyt Principles and the fact that Hazreti Ali having been ordered by our Prophet Hazreti Muhammed to be the First Caliph).

    The Seljukid dynasty believed first in the Judaism religion, when they were part of the Khazar Turk Empire. The names of the first Seljukid Sultans showed clearly that they were believing in the Judaism religion. The names of the associated Seljukid Sultans were Arslan/Israil/Israel Yabgu(1032), Musa/Moses Yabgu(1047), Mikail Yabgu(1037), Yınal/Yusuf/Joseph Yabgu. The first Seljukid dynasty was part of the Khazars, and later part of the Oghuz Yabgu state, and later they became an independent state.

    Looking at the Wars between the Khazars and the Umayyads and Abbasids, we can see that it was the Khazar dynasty whom caused for the indirect collapse of the Umayyad dynasty and the begin of the Abbasid dynasty. Since the Seljukid dynasty was part of the Khazars, it means that the Seljukids were enemies with the Umayyads and the Abbasids.

    Later, when the Fatimid and Buhayvi states became stronger, the Abbasid state was weakened, doomed to fall apart, and sought help of the Seljukid dynasty. The goal of the Seljukid dynasty was World Conquest, so they used the Abbasid dynasty as a symbolic puppet, and became the real ruler and took control of the regions earlier ruled by the Abbasids. The Abbasid dynasty had no military and political power anymore, they were only functioning as symbolic puppets for the Seljukid Empire. Hereby, the Seljukids expanded their Empire.

    At the beginning of the period of between the 10th-13th centuries AD, the Seljukid Turk population believed in the Sky TENGRI religion. The Turk population became little by little Muslims because of their believe in the principles of Mansur al-Halladj(858 - 922), Khoja Akhmet Yassawi(1093-1166) and Haji Bektash Veli(1209 - 1271). We must accept the fact that the reason the Seljukid dynasty changed religions was for political world conquest reasons. Just like the transition of the Seljukid dynasty to the Judaism, the transition to the Islam, were both performed for political world conquest reasons. The principles of Mansur al-Halladj(858 - 922), Khoja Akhmet Yassawi(1093-1166) and Haji Bektash Veli(1209 - 1271) were the fundamental principles which caused for the real Islamic believe among the Turks and defined to which Islamic sect the Seljukids(also other Turk populations like the Karakhanids) and their Turk population belonged to.

    Lets describe the contents of the principles of the sect created by Mansur al-Halladj(858 - 922), Khoja Akhmet Yassawi(1093-1166) and Haji Bektash Veli(1209 - 1271) in a simple understandable way:

    1. "The Conducting of Turk Nationalism, which includes Talking and Writing in the Turk Language, Defending the Old Turk Culture and Historical Values, World Conquest, Peace and making the Sky TENGRI religion a part of the Turk cultural traditions, "

    2. "The Believe in the Real Islamic principles of our Prophet Hazreti Muhammed(S.A.V.) and Hazreti Ali, and the Hate Against the Umayyads, the Sunni Umayyad religion(Fake Islam) and their followers who massacred all descendants(Ehl-i Beyt / Ahl al-Bayt) of our Prophet Hazreti Muhammed(S.A.V.) and Hazreti Ali only for the goal of increasing their personal/dynasty political and economical power"

    These fundamentals were the ones that builded the beginning of the Ottoman Empire(1299-1918). The Yeniçeri(Janissaries) Armed Forces builded the Ottoman state together with the first Ottoman sultans. The Yeniçeri(Janissaries) Armed Forces was an Army build upon the principles of Haji Bektash Veli(1209 - 1271)(which is based on the principles of earlier Khoja Akhmet Yassawi(1093-1166), which is based on the principles of earlier Mansur al-Halladj(858 - 922) ). Why do you think that Khoja Akhmet Yassawi(1093-1166) was sentimentally very important for the Cingizids and the Timurid dynasties?

    The Seljukids were the ones that brought down(put an end to) the Abbasid Empire. The Abbasids performed many unsuccesful riots against the Seljukid Rule. How could the Seljukids be Sunni or even friends(feel sympathy for their principles) with the Abbasids, if the Abbasids rebelled against the Seljukids? How could the Seljukids be really Sunni, if they took control over the final Abbasid state of the Umayyads and made a useless puppet of the Abbasid dynasty? How could the Seljukid dynasty whom were earlier Judaism believers be Sunni, if their Oghuz Turkmen population and the Seljukid public leaders believed in the Turk-Islamic principles of Mansur al-Halladj(858 - 922), Khoja Akhmet Yassawi(1093-1166) and Haji Bektash Veli(1209 - 1271)?

    To give an important example of the Seljukid dynasty sultans:

    "Seljukid Sultan Ahmed Sencer(1086 - 1157), showed his loyalty to Yusuf El-Hemedânî(1048-1140) at each occasion. Who was this Yusuf El-Hemedânî? Yusuf El-Hemedânî was the teacher of Khoja Akhmet Yassawi(1093-1166). The graves of both Yusuf El-Hemedânî and Seljukid Sultan Ahmed Sencer are located in Turkmenistan-Merv."

    So, how could the Seljukid dynasty believe in the Sunni Umayyad religion(Fake Islam), if Seljukid Sultan Ahmed Sencer believed in and fully followed the principles of Khoja Akhmet Yassawi(1093-1166), which is 100% against the Sunni Umayyad religion(Fake Islam)?

    By the way, not to forget to mention the fact that Ebu Hanife(699-767) hated the Fake Islamic principles of the Umayyad dynasty(=Sunni).

    The Ayyubids were allies of the Seljukids, and they put an end to the Sii Fatimid state. The Seljukids put an end to the Sunni Abbasid state. Both the armies and population of the Sii Fatimid state and the Sunni Abbasid state were associated and full with many Turk tribes and dynasties like the Tolunid Turks and the Mamluk Turks.

    In fact, the Seljukid dynasty and the later Ottoman(follower of Seljukids), Cingizid and Timurid dynasties united all Muslims within a peaceful rule of Turk empires. The beginning of the Ottoman dynasty, the Safavids and Timurids were the ones that made the Principles of Mansur al-Halladj(858 - 922), Khoja Akhmet Yassawi(1093-1166) and Haji Bektash Veli(1209 - 1271) (Principles of the Real Islam and the Real Turk Nationalism) the official constitution of the Turk states/empires which caused for the union of all Muslims, but later ended in a fight between several Turk dynasties.

    We see now, that the Umayyads and the Abbasids were the representives of the Fake-Islam. But what about the Fatimids?



    First of all, between the Fatimid State and İsmâil bin Câ'fer el-Mûbarek and Ca'fer es-Sâdık(also killed by the Umayyads/Abbasids) is 144 years, which is a long period of time. The Umayyad dynasty killed most ruling descendants of Hazreti Muhammed(S.A.V.) and Hazreti Ali. Thats why the equalness of the principles of the Fatimids with the principles of Ca'fer es-Sâdık and İsmâil bin Câ'fer el-Mûbarek(latest final ruling descendants of Hazreti Muhammed(S.A.V.) )is very debatable and doubtful.

    Lets analyze an important example showing the character of the Fatimid state:

    "
    The Fatimid state allied with and trusted the Christian Crusaders and the Christian Byzantine state, against the Muslim Seljukids, during the First Crusade (1096-99). While the Muslim Seljukids were busy with their succesfull battle against the Christian Crusaders, the Fatimid state had chosen to be on the side of the Christian Crusaders.

    The main evidence for the alliance between the Christian Crusaders and the Muslim Fatimids lies in a delegation the Fatimids sent to the Crusaders while they were camped outside Antioch. Albert of Aachen, for example, describes how the Fatimid ruler, "sent fifteen envoys who were skilled in different languages to the army of the living God, about a mutual alliance for peace and his kingdom."

    This shows that religion has nothing to do with the ruling of a state. It is all about the political and economical power. Why would the Muslim Fatimid state form an alliance with the Christian Crusaders(whom wants to kill all Muslims) and the Byzantines against the Muslim Seljukid Turks, if their goal was religious? Is this not the same kind of treason like the Umayyads and Abbasids performed earlier? Yes, it is.

    The Fatimid dynasty thought that if they trusted and allied with the Christian Crusaders, they could defeat the Muslim Seljukids, and share these Seljukid territories/regions(which were earlier ruled by the Muslim Seljukids) together with the Christian Crusaders. But, the fact is that this treason caused for the decreasing and end of the Fatimid state, because the Christian Crusaders did not act positively like the Fatimids were thinking. The Christian Crusaders hated all Muslims(wanted to kill all Muslims if possible, which was not possible of course), but the Muslim Fatimids preferred the Christians as allies in stead of the Muslim Seljukids. Later, the Ayyubids whom took the regions of earlier Fatimids, allied with the Seljukids against the Christian Crusaders, which resulted in a final victory of the Muslim Seljukids against the Christian Crusaders.
    "

    Source: Türkler ve Gerçek İslam
    Actually some Turks were more Sunni like and others Alevi like in the beginning but in this time there was no clear line separating the two. Even today some Bektashis are like Sunnis. It isnt sure wether Seljuk himself ever converted and looking at the names of his sons he could be following Khazar Judaism. Seljuk supposedly converted in 985 but this isnt sure. The conversion likely happent at the time of his sons Michael, Moses etc as Çağrı and Tuğrul (both sons of Michael) were Jihadi Muslims. And they were Sunnis like Arabian user above mentions.

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