N1b1b (mtdna) In Europe

[CordedWhelp]

What are some likely scenarios in which such a haplogroup would be present in someone with immediate ancestry from East/Northeast Europe? (My Maternal Grandmother was Polish/Polonized Russian/Rusyn). I understand that N1b2 is seen among eastern European Ashkenazim, but I have seen no known frequency of my subclade in them.

[CordedWhelp]

Bump

[CordedWhelp]

any theories, yo?

It appears to have Some frequency in Europe, even if rare. I have not found any actual statistics, though. Do we know where it is found most frequently in Europe?

[CordedWhelp]

Someone once suggested a so-called Neolithic Farmer answer to this question. I find this is only interesting though, if there is one or more archaelogical culture in what is now Europe with genetic material loaded with N1b's.

[dhunter93]

If your 16176A thats the Jewish marker if your 16176G that's the standard gentile version. The 16176G is found in low frequency all over Europe.

[CordedWhelp]

If your 16176A thats the Jewish marker if your 16176G that's the standard gentile version. The 16176G is found in low frequency all over Europe.

I know this is months old.

I'm aware of the difference and point of my post is how the subclade got into Europe. Yes, N1b2 is more associated with Ashkenazim. (I have seen some Ashkenazim with my haplogroup, though, interestingly)

Point was, is it Neolithic? Earlier? It is a rare group nevertheless...

Interestingly, although 23 has it has N1b1b, I uploaded the raw data to WeGene and it was estimated as the highly related but nevertheless different subclade of N1b1a2. Also, ran it on Jameslick's mtdna site and get this:

Best mtDNA Haplogroup Matches:

1) N1b1a2

Defining Markers for haplogroup N1b1a2:
HVR2: 73G 152C 263G
CR: 750G 1438G 1598A 1703T 1719A 2639T 2706G 3921A 4769G 4904T 4960T 5471A 7028T 8251A 8472T 8836G 8860G 9335T 10238C 11362G 11719A 12501A 12705T 12822G 14766T 15326G
HVR1: 16145A 16176G 16223T 16390A

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup N1b1a2 (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 12705T 16223T ⇨ N ⇨ 1719A ⇨ N1'5 ⇨ 10238C 12501A ⇨ N1 ⇨ 152C 1598A 2639T 5471A 8251A 8836G 16176G 16390A ⇨ N1b ⇨ 1703T 3921A 4960T 8472T 12822G 16145A ⇨ N1b1 ⇨ 9335T 11362G ⇨ N1b1a ⇨ 4904T ⇨ N1b1a2 ⇨ 13967T (16519C)

Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Matches(27): 73G 152C 263G 750G 1438G 1598A 1719A 2639T 2706G 4769G 4904T 4960T 5471A 7028T 8251A 8472T 8860G 9335T 10238C 11362G 11719A 12501A 12705T 14766T 16145A 16223T 16390A
Mismatches(1): 16176C
Flips(2): 1703A 3921T
Extras(1): 13967T (16519C)
No-Calls(2): 8836G 12822G
Untested(1): 15326


2) N1b1a

Defining Markers for haplogroup N1b1a:
HVR2: 73G 152C 263G
CR: 750G 1438G 1598A 1703T 1719A 2639T 2706G 3921A 4769G 4960T 5471A 7028T 8251A 8472T 8836G 8860G 9335T 10238C 11362G 11719A 12501A 12705T 12822G 14766T 15326G
HVR1: 16145A 16176G 16223T 16390A

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup N1b1a (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 12705T 16223T ⇨ N ⇨ 1719A ⇨ N1'5 ⇨ 10238C 12501A ⇨ N1 ⇨ 152C 1598A 2639T 5471A 8251A 8836G 16176G 16390A ⇨ N1b ⇨ 1703T 3921A 4960T 8472T 12822G 16145A ⇨ N1b1 ⇨ 9335T 11362G ⇨ N1b1a ⇨ 4904T 13967T (16519C)

Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Matches(26): 73G 152C 263G 750G 1438G 1598A 1719A 2639T 2706G 4769G 4960T 5471A 7028T 8251A 8472T 8860G 9335T 10238C 11362G 11719A 12501A 12705T 14766T 16145A 16223T 16390A
Mismatches(1): 16176C
Flips(2): 1703A 3921T
Extras(2): 4904T 13967T (16519C)
No-Calls(2): 8836G 12822G
Untested(1): 15326


2) N1b1a2a

Defining Markers for haplogroup N1b1a2a:
HVR2: 73G 152C 263G
CR: 750G 1438G 1598A 1703T 1719A 2639T 2706G 3921A 4769G 4904T 4960T 5471A 7028T 8251A 8264T 8472T 8836G 8860G 9335T 10238C 11362G 11719A 12501A 12705T 12822G 14766T 15326G
HVR1: 16145A 16176G 16223T 16390A

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup N1b1a2a (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 12705T 16223T ⇨ N ⇨ 1719A ⇨ N1'5 ⇨ 10238C 12501A ⇨ N1 ⇨ 152C 1598A 2639T 5471A 8251A 8836G 16176G 16390A ⇨ N1b ⇨ 1703T 3921A 4960T 8472T 12822G 16145A ⇨ N1b1 ⇨ 9335T 11362G ⇨ N1b1a ⇨ 4904T ⇨ N1b1a2 ⇨ 8264T ⇨ N1b1a2a ⇨ 13967T (16519C)

Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Matches(27): 73G 152C 263G 750G 1438G 1598A 1719A 2639T 2706G 4769G 4904T 4960T 5471A 7028T 8251A 8472T 8860G 9335T 10238C 11362G 11719A 12501A 12705T 14766T 16145A 16223T 16390A
Mismatches(2): 8264C 16176C
Flips(2): 1703A 3921T
Extras(1): 13967T (16519C)
No-Calls(2): 8836G 12822G
Untested(1): 15326


3) N1b1a6

Defining Markers for haplogroup N1b1a6:
HVR2: 73G 152C 263G
CR: 750G 1438G 1598A 1703T 1719A 2639T 2706G 3921A 4769G 4960T 5471A 7010T 7028T 8251A 8469C 8472T 8836G 8860G 9335T 10238C 11362G 11719A 12501A 12705T 12822G 14766T 15326G
HVR1: 16145A 16176G 16223T 16390A

Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup N1b1a6 (plus extra markers):
H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 12705T 16223T ⇨ N ⇨ 1719A ⇨ N1'5 ⇨ 10238C 12501A ⇨ N1 ⇨ 152C 1598A 2639T 5471A 8251A 8836G 16176G 16390A ⇨ N1b ⇨ 1703T 3921A 4960T 8472T 12822G 16145A ⇨ N1b1 ⇨ 9335T 11362G ⇨ N1b1a ⇨ 7010T 8469C ⇨ N1b1a6 ⇨ 4904T 13967T (16519C)

Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
Matches(26): 73G 152C 263G 750G 1438G 1598A 1719A 2639T 2706G 4769G 4960T 5471A 7028T 8251A 8472T 8860G 9335T 10238C 11362G 11719A 12501A 12705T 14766T 16145A 16223T 16390A
Mismatches(1): 16176C
Flips(2): 1703A 3921T
Extras(2): 4904T 13967T (16519C)
No-Calls(2): 8836G 12822G
Untested(3): 7010 8469 15326

[CordedWhelp]

Bump

[Hamlet]

The 23andme version will be correct over those predictor websites, I'm N1b2 and some predictor websites have given me N1b1-somethings (wrong). From what I've read N1b1 is unlikely to be Jewish in origin, I mean I've seen some people with Irish maternal roots having it, and Jews never really set foot there.

[Hamlet]

And if you want to rest assured, Bennett Greenspan (of FTDNA) is also of the opinion that N1b1 is not Jewish.

[CordedWhelp]

And if you want to rest assured, Bennett Greenspan (of FTDNA) is also of the opinion that N1b1 is not Jewish.

Well aware of much of this. Point was not "is it Jew?" but simply "what is it?". Not sure what any modern scholarship has mentioned regarding the N1b presence in Europe. I guess "probably Neolithic" is the answer most would say.