N1b1b (mtdna) In Europe

[Hamlet]

Well aware of much of this. Point was not "is it Jew?" but simply "what is it?". Not sure what any modern scholarship has mentioned regarding the N1b presence in Europe. I guess "probably Neolithic" is the answer most would say.

I think it seems Neolithic too lol, Anatolian/Northern Fertile Crescent/Southern Caucasus to be precise.

[Arduti]

Haplogroups and admixtures are not good indicators of Jewishness. There have been MANY conversions into Judaism which diversifies those that should be included, but also does not and should not include everyone from that subclade as being Jewish.

[CordedWhelp]

Hmm, I've been doing some research and I'm not sure I've found anything real solid suggesting N1b (the core subclade) has been found before that one Natufian individual found to be mtdna N1b. Anyone know of earlier confirmed samples?

Am I to assume my mtdna-bearer was a Natufian or Natufian-related lady, begetting descendants and daughters who found their way to the Caucasus who's descendants found themselves wound up with early indo europeans and then found themselves in eastern europe with an eventual Slavic identity?

[CordedWhelp]

bump?

[dhunter93]

N1B is form the Caucasus and migration went into Europe and into the Near East.



As far as the Jewish N1B2

https://journals.plos.org/plosgeneti...l.pgen.1006644


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4301023/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3806353/

[CordedWhelp]

N1B is form the Caucasus and migration went into Europe and into the Near East.



As far as the Jewish N1B2

https://journals.plos.org/plosgeneti...l.pgen.1006644


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4301023/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3806353/

The "Neolithic" explanation of my subclade other people have been guessing seems off to me-there is a complete paucity (somebody correct me if I am wrong) of N1B in Neolithic Europe, only N1a is abundant. I might more think it came later during the Bronze Age, Caucasus women brought over by Corded Ware (or at least Yamna) broskis.

What's also interesting is although my subclade is found over much of Europe (albeit mostly in Very small fractions of a percent), it seems to exhibit somewhat elevated frequencies in formerly fringe areas that Indo Europeans migrated to; the southern Baltic, the eastern Mediterranean shores/Boot of Italy, and Ireland. Most examples of N1b I've seen online have been folks from these three areas (in Europe, that is)

It's kinda clear to me that "farmer" MTDNA in Europe is from two similar-but-somewhat-different sources: Sardinian-like folks from Anatolia who came during the Neolithic, and people (perhaps exclusively women) direct from the Caucasus who came a little later during the Metal ages, brought over by their horse-riding husbands.

Now the question is, which haplos do we assume to have come from the former and which ones from the latter?

I'm wondering who spread most of the H in Europe. eNeolithic/Copper Age Bell Beakers? It kind of is astonishing to me how 23andme STILL says H1 and H3 were post-LGM lineages. People have been questioning that narrative since at least like 2006.

[CordedWhelp]

The "Neolithic" explanation of my subclade other people have been guessing seems off to me-there is a complete paucity (somebody correct me if I am wrong) of N1B in Neolithic Europe, only N1a is abundant. I might more think it came later during the Bronze Age, Caucasus women brought over by Corded Ware (or at least Yamna) broskis.

What's also interesting is although my subclade is found over much of Europe (albeit mostly in Very small fractions of a percent), it seems to exhibit somewhat elevated frequencies in formerly fringe areas that Indo Europeans migrated to; the southern Baltic, the eastern Mediterranean shores/Boot of Italy, and Ireland. Most examples of N1b I've seen online have been folks from these three areas (in Europe, that is)

It's kinda clear to me that "farmer" MTDNA in Europe is from two similar-but-somewhat-different sources: Sardinian-like folks from Anatolia who came during the Neolithic, and people direct from the Caucasus who came a little later during the Metal ages.

Now the question is, which haplos do we assume to have come from the former and which ones from the latter?

Actually I don't know why I listed the eastern Med as an example of those "fringe" places- it was actually quite a hopping place both during, before, and after the bronze age. Don't mind me.

[CordedWhelp]

Hmm, I suppose I was wrong! I've been doing some talking with someone "in the biz"- apparently my subclade is associated with the SEE Neolithic (Bukk-Tizsa-Eastern Linear Pottery, etc)

Slightly different note: I wonder if mtdna N1b could be considered to be a Basal Eurasian clade.....

[CordedWhelp]

bump.

[dhunter93]

I am not sure what you are looking for? N1B even the Ashkenazi (16176A) is from Europe https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms3543
N1b originates is the Caucasus, what's your concern?