Setu People – The Oldest Settled People In Europe

[Äike]

Pardon me, but I have strong doubts about this. I always thought the demographic continuity of the proto-Indo-Europeans persisted mostly in the East, while their language(s) spread to other parts of Europe via cultural diffusion.

F.e. there were several ancient migration waves of IE speakers into the Balkans, and while the local populace was eventually linguistically assimilated, the newcomers were assimilated in turn, only genetically.

I'll rephrase my idea. Northern-Europeans who speak Indo-European languages, do not look like the people who brought Indo-European languages into Europe.

[esaima]

Have Setu speaking Setus lived 11 000 or 8400 years in their land- i doubt about this but anyway, they are nice.
Some Setu people, well-known in Estonia:

Anne Vabarna (1877-1964) is considered to be the greatest Setu folk singer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Vabarna




Hilana Taarka (1856-1933), an other legendary Setu folk singer



Arvo Kukumägi, film actor



Paul Hagu, ethnologist and folklorist



Inara Luigas, parliament member from Setu area



Ilmar Vananurm, journalist and poet


Aare Hõrn, Setu activist

[Thulsa Doom]

I wonder it they have anything to do with the Sitones mentioned by Tacitus.

The Baltic-Finnic languages can´t hardly be older then 2500 in the area, so they are not the oldest settled group in Europe. The oldest ethnolinguistic group in Europe is most likely the Basques (6500 years) followed by the Lithuanians and the Swedes on a shared second placed (5000 years). The oldest settlements, non hunter-gathering, in Europe would be somewhere in Balkan, Bulgaria is a likely place.

[Jaska]

My point is, the ancestors of modern Estonians were in Estonia, before the creators of European civilization, had arrived to their current homeland(Greece).

Hmm? Sorry, but I fail to understand the point of your comparison. True, part of the ancestors of Estonians were there early, but similarly part of the ancestors of Greeks were there (in Greece), too. And even earlier, when Estonia was still under the ice cover.

And if you are talking about the linguistic ancestors: Greece was greekicized about 4000 years ago, and Estonia wasn't Uralicized at least before that. As an Estonian, you can probably read Finnish at some level:

http://www.kotikielenseura.fi/viritt...tut/2006_2.pdf

http://www.sgr.fi/susa/92/hakkinen.pdf

And if you still consider believing in Wiik, Künnap etc., it might be illuminating for you to understand, what the continuity arguments cannot prove, even in theory:

http://www.mv.helsinki.fi/home/jphakkin/Jatkuvuus1.pdf

[Jaska]

The Baltic-Finnic languages can´t hardly be older then 2500 in the area, so they are not the oldest settled group in Europe. The oldest ethnolinguistic group in Europe is most likely the Basques (6500 years) followed by the Lithuanians and the Swedes on a shared second placed (5000 years). The oldest settlements, non hunter-gathering, in Europe would be somewhere in Balkan, Bulgaria is a likely place.

Swedes as an ethnolinguistic group are only about 1000 years old – before that they were not diverged from Old Scandinavians. Lithuanians may be “older” in that case, but only as old as the differentiation within East Baltic language group. And Lithuanians, just like Swedes and all the other peoples, are not an ancient monolith: there were different Baltic and Scandinavian dialects, and those which were connected under one ruler, became unified. If the historical developments would have been different, so would be the limits of Swedes (against Danish and Norwegians) and Lithuanians (against Latvians).

[Äike]

I wonder it they have anything to do with the Sitones mentioned by Tacitus.

The Baltic-Finnic languages can´t hardly be older then 2500 in the area, so they are not the oldest settled group in Europe. The oldest ethnolinguistic group in Europe is most likely the Basques (6500 years) followed by the Lithuanians and the Swedes on a shared second placed (5000 years). The oldest settlements, non hunter-gathering, in Europe would be somewhere in Balkan, Bulgaria is a likely place.

O_O

You're only correct with 1 statement, that Basques are one of the oldest people in Europe.

Firstly, Swedes aren't 5000 years old, even Germanics aren't that old. Lithuanians also aren't old.

Compared to Estonians, Balts are "recent" immigrants to the area. 1000 years ago, modern-day Latvia was still mostly Finnic. It were mostly the Livonians who fought the crusaders, not the Latgals.

Your statements amazed me.

[Äike]

Hmm? Sorry, but I fail to understand the point of your comparison. True, part of the ancestors of Estonians were there early, but similarly part of the ancestors of Greeks were there (in Greece), too. And even earlier, when Estonia was still under the ice cover.

And if you are talking about the linguistic ancestors: Greece was greekicized about 4000 years ago, and Estonia wasn't Uralicized at least before that. As an Estonian, you can probably read Finnish at some level:

http://www.kotikielenseura.fi/viritt...tut/2006_2.pdf

http://www.sgr.fi/susa/92/hakkinen.pdf

And if you still consider believing in Wiik, Künnap etc., it might be illuminating for you to understand, what the continuity arguments cannot prove, even in theory:

http://www.mv.helsinki.fi/home/jphakkin/Jatkuvuus1.pdf

I can read Finnish as much as you can read Estonian.

[Jaska]

I can read Finnish as much as you can read Estonian.

Väga hea! Sa saad aru kõigidest mu linkidest!

Compared to Estonians, Balts are "recent" immigrants to the area. 1000 years ago, modern-day Latvia was still mostly Finnic. It were mostly the Livonians who fought the crusaders, not the Latgals.

Northeastern Latvia was mainly Finnic, but it seems that the Livonians were actually quite recent immigrants into Courland (about ~1000 AD).

[Murphy]

Interesting. I was always under the impression that the Irish were the most settled people north of the Alps.

[Äike]

Väga hea! Sa saad aru kõigidest mu linkidest!

Ma tahtsin seda öelda, et ma ei räägi soome keelt. Minä en puhu suomalaisen.

Northeastern Latvia was mainly Finnic, but it seems that the Livonians were actually quite recent immigrants into Courland (about ~1000 AD).

You're out of your mind. No one argues the fact that Finnic people were in the Baltic area before the Balts. Genetics proves this.

and by the way, Livonians lived in Western-Latvia. Not North-Eastern Latvia.