To survive the 21st century and ahead, recolonization of Africa is a must

[The Lawspeaker]

Sorry about that.

It's alright. Just when the Euro's retake it: stay out.

Suriname: Why??? Its a disease and fly infested cesspit where only a few thousand live, just like Guyana (aka "British Guiana")

We have over a quarter of a million Surinamese here.. effectively more then those that life there. It's a cesspit that can be cleared up (at least the coastal plains can.. when it comes to the jungle: either prepare well or stay out). Suriname like Indonesia can provide us with raw materials and tropical products and they can be helped with building up their own economies and societies. And.. another nice thing: a Dutchman would no longer need to travel to some far away island in the Pacific to find a tropical haven. He could go to Suriname where he can speak Dutch and (after some time) still find the comforts of home. Suriname like South Africa, the Antilles and Indonesia is what the Dutch call a verwantschapsland (a nation to which we have (cultural/historical) ties).

Suid Afrika: Yep, but you'd need the backing of other nations to take it, Britain, France and maybe America.

Yes. A military intervention should be carried out by a joint European force.

Indonesia: No chance. That's like Britain saying we're going to get America back The whole population is hostile to Euro/Dutch rule, and to be honest there is a lot of them and the Indonesian military isn't small.

Hmm we won't be conquering Indonesia. It would be better to offer them a good deal: Dutch businesses will invest massively in Indonesia and build it up, rooting out tropical diseases, cleaning up the place big time and in turn they only have to allow the King or Queen as their ceremonial head of state(not that they will see her very often) by joining the Commonwealth. Dutch Indonesians and Indo-Dutch will also invest en masse and return to the Islands. And Dutch could be given on schools as a primary foreign language while Dutch children can study Bahasa or Malay in school and be given the opportunity to study in let's say Batavia or Soerabaja before returning to the Netherlands whereas an Indonesian can do the same in let's say Delft or Leiden. The Netherlands could be made very popular there as the old generation is long buried and the Netherlands could be a partner state and a social-economic roll model.

Why? English is useful to them in that part of the world, America has lots of tourists with a lot of money (for the time being anyway )

But Dutch and Papiamento will be the language spoken. English could be used in the same manner as English is being used here: as a primary foreign language.
So my personal advise to any rich yanks that want to settle on those islands: get out of your villa, sign up for an integration course and start learning Dutch and Papiamento.

[Albion]

It's alright. Just when the Euro's retake it: stay out.

OK, our government and country can since they're the morons who messed up last time, but I take it English and Scots will be welcome in Rhodesia?

We have over a quarter of a million Surinamese here.. effectively more then those that life there. It's a cesspit that can be cleared up (at least the coastal plains can.. when it comes to the jungle: either prepare well or stay out).

You can clear the plains but it'll still be a sticky, icky sweat box.

Suriname like Indonesia can provide us with raw materials and tropical products and they can be helped with building up their own economies and societies.

Yeah, that's true. I guess uninhabited areas of it could be settled with Dutch so that the Netherlands would actually have a reason other than "for the resources" to explain to the UN and the rest of the world why it would incorporate it into the rest of the Netherlands.
The parts of Suriname inhabited by non-Dutch could stay as a separate colony.

a Dutchman would no longer need to travel to some far away island in the Pacific to find a tropical haven

Yes, sorry to burst your bubble but you already have the Dutch Antilles. We have Bermuda, Cayman Islands and Pitcairn Island, but its still more practical for most English / Brits to travel to the Med.
It'd be nice as a settler colony, but I'd partition it between European areas and Surinamese areas, I don't think it'd work out as a major tourist destination though.

It would be better to offer them a good deal: Dutch businesses will invest massively in Indonesia and build it up, rooting out tropical diseases, cleaning up the place big time and in turn they only have to allow the King or Queen as their ceremonial head of state(not that they will see her very often) by joining the Commonwealth

I wouldn't bother, you'd just be creating another China, another competitor to Europe and the West. They wouldn't be eternally grateful, they'd make their money and go it alone, challenging the west.

So my personal advise to any rich yanks that want to settle on those islands: get out of your villa, sign up for an integration course and start learning Dutch and Papiamento.

Hahaha, yes good point.

I'd like to re-settle western Australia, not by invading Australia or anything, by working with the Aussie government. They could fill up a empty patch of their massive country and the UK could lose a lot of excess population.

[Groenewolf]

We have over a quarter of a million Surinamese here.. effectively more then those that life there. It's a cesspit that can be cleared up (at least the coastal plains can.. when it comes to the jungle: either prepare well or stay out). Suriname like Indonesia can provide us with raw materials and tropical products and they can be helped with building up their own economies and societies. And.. another nice thing: a Dutchman would no longer need to travel to some far away island in the Pacific to find a tropical haven. He could go to Suriname where he can speak Dutch and (after some time) still find the comforts of home. Suriname like South Africa, the Antilles and Indonesia is what the Dutch call a verwantschapsland (a nation to which we have (cultural/historical) ties).

Of course we could use to build up a space center, like France has in their South-American part of the world. Doing our own semi-independent space-program would probably by a bit of a overstretch. But we could offer it to other space agencies for a nice sum of money and of course participation.

[The Lawspeaker]

Of course we could use to build up a space center, like France has in their South-American part of the world. Doing our own semi-independent space-program would probably by a bit of a overstretch. But we could offer it to other space agencies for a nice sum of money and of course participation.

Exactly. It would be a nice station for a Dutch (plus Commonwealth - think about the South Africans) space program and the E.S.A. And we could also use a place somewhere for nuclear testing in case the Netherlands and the Commonwealth would see the need to join the Nuclear Club.

[The Lawspeaker]

OK, our government and country can since they're the morons who messed up last time, but I take it English and Scots will be welcome in Rhodesia?

Of course. Rhodesia would be (for the time being) part of the British Commonwealth whereas South Africa would be Dutch. They could also settle in South Africa if they are British South Africans.

You can clear the plains but it'll still be a sticky, icky sweat box.

Good point. It will need a special breed of people. But then again most Dutch that would go to the colonies would then go to South Africa anyways.

Yeah, that's true. I guess uninhabited areas of it could be settled with Dutch so that the Netherlands would actually have a reason other than "for the resources" to explain to the UN and the rest of the world why it would incorporate it into the rest of the Netherlands.

It won't be incorperated but the country will be as independent as they were before 1975 - it will basically be a restauration of the 1954-1975 situation with it's own elected government and a governor to represent H.M The Queen. This government will be elected by the citizens of Suriname.

Basically if you look at it from the form of a passport: it would have the Surinamese coat of arms with a crown (the crown representing the Netherlands) and the words "Koninkrijk Suriname- Kingdom of Suriname" (and maybe in the local language "Sranan" as well (It would be something like "Sranan Kownukondre" - I looked it up in a dictionary.)

The parts of Suriname inhabited by non-Dutch could stay as a separate colony.

No partition will take place. We are not going to rip up their country but we are going to build it into a country. Dutch that will go there should just receive the full assistance from Dutch and Surinamese authorities.

Yes, sorry to burst your bubble but you already have the Dutch Antilles. We have Bermuda, Cayman Islands and Pitcairn Island, but its still more practical for most English / Brits to travel to the Med.

Good point but with the increasing wealth more people would be able to travel to the colonies and since it would be a part of the Kingdom travelling there could be slightly cheaper then going abroad. Also: it would be easy for a Dutchman then to decide to not to stick around here in the cold Netherlands when he has to study instead study in the colonies. Hell: the same could go for military postings (mainly the Navy) and jungle training.

It'd be nice as a settler colony, but I'd partition it between European areas and Surinamese areas, I don't think it'd work out as a major tourist destination though.

No partitions. It one would simply build it up it would become much more liveable for both European settlers/tourists/students and for the locals themselves.

[YOUTUBE]XiuDVEiBMI8[/YOUTUBE]
This for instance is Indonesia in 1941. I am sure you know what it looks like today.

I wouldn't bother, you'd just be creating another China, another competitor to Europe and the West. They wouldn't be eternally grateful, they'd make their money and go it alone, challenging the west.

You never know. Indonesians are not exactly the biggest friends of the Chinese and Japanese so it might come in handy one day. And.. since we would let them evolve to a similar kind of economy that we have found we face a competitor that is in some cases very similar to us.. and it would keep us sharp.

Hahaha, yes good point.

I'd like to re-settle western Australia, not by invading Australia or anything, by working with the Aussie government. They could fill up a empty patch of their massive country and the UK could lose a lot of excess population.

Well.. It would be a good idea for the Dutch to spread out and the majority of Dutch immigrants should go to South Africa with other people then going to the West and East Indies (and abroad). They will not "take over lands" but just settle in neighborhoods or in new villages and on the countryside to lead development projects and generate jobs and assist the local administration.

Whereas the locals should be helped to learn Dutch the Dutch there should learn the local languages and local customs - creating a fusion between the culture of the colonies and the culture of the Netherlands and the ones going to the Indies would mainly be the ones with connection there anyways: Indo-Europeans, grandchildren of the Indies diaspora and immigrants from those areas. It would be wise for other Dutch to stay in seperate neighborhoods until the colonies have reached a similar level of personal wealth and civilization as the Netherlands has.

So in that way- we get rid of a lot of excess population and a lot of those leaving for the Indies have Indies' heritage anyways.

[Albion]

Of course. Rhodesia would be (for the time being) part of the British Commonwealth whereas South Africa would be Dutch. They could also settle in South Africa if they are British South Africans.

Yes, that makes sense and then eventually Rhodesia once developed could become a independent nation modelled on NZ or Australia.

Good point. It will need a special breed of people. But then again most Dutch that would go to the colonies would then go to South Africa anyways

It would appeal to the "adventurous" sort or the sort of people who have next to nothing in Europe, that's how Canada and America were founded.
There's a lot of opportunity that could be had, people could start mining and resource companies who set up farms to supply the Netherlands with food.
I guess such a scheme could be implemented in Guyana too under British rule.

It won't be incorperated but the country will be as independent as they were before 1975 - it will basically be a restauration of the 1954-1975 situation with it's own elected government and a governor to represent H.M The Queen. This government will be elected by the citizens of Suriname.

Well that's what the British do, the government here lets the territories rule themselves, but it seems unless such territories are incorporated into the nation fully and represented in the parliament like the rest of the nation then they deemed to be "colonies" and the UN get on your case.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_list_of_Non-Self-Governing_Territories (aka "the colonies list")

No partition will take place. We are not going to rip up their country but we are going to build it into a country. Dutch that will go there should just receive the full assistance from Dutch and Surinamese authorities.

But what about multiculturalism? Wouldn't it be a multicultural mess with the Dutch sharing a country with the Surinamese?

No partitions.

Awww.... So what do you propose to do, swamp the Surinamese population or outbreed them? Good luck.

It one would simply build it up it would become much more liveable for both European settlers/tourists/students and for the locals themselves.

Sounds nice.

This for instance is Indonesia in 1941. I am sure you know what it looks like today.

Yes, I do, a militaristic banana republic.

You never know. Indonesians are not exactly the biggest friends of the Chinese and Japanese so it might come in handy one day. And.. since we would let them evolve to a similar kind of economy that we have found we face a competitor that is in some cases very similar to us.. and it would keep us sharp.

They don't have to like China or Japan to be a competitor, but the Netherlands could never compete with a developed country with vast amounts of resources and such a huge labour force as Indonesia's could be.
Keeping sharp is one thing, clambering for economic survival is another.

Well.. It would be a good idea for the Dutch to spread out and the majority of Dutch immigrants should go to South Africa with other people then going to the West and East Indies (and abroad). They will not "take over lands" but just settle in neighborhoods or in new villages and on the countryside to lead development projects and generate jobs and assist the local administration.

Wait, didn't you say South Africa would be white / boer again? It sounds like here that we'd "take civilization" to them as the old colonialists would say (sorry, I couldn't think of better words ), but that's the gist of it - you'd be giving them everything on a silver platter.

Whereas the locals should be helped to learn Dutch the Dutch there should learn the local languages and local customs - creating a fusion between the culture of the colonies and the culture of the Netherlands

That happened in Paraguay (Spaniards+Guarani, latter Italians+Guarano-Spaniards), some people would see that as a positive example, others as a negative. Paraguay did well until Brazil, Argentina and Bolivia flattened it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_triple_alliance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gran_Chaco_War

the ones going to the Indies would mainly be the ones with connection there anyways: Indo-Europeans, grandchildren of the Indies diaspora and immigrants from those areas. It would be wise for other Dutch to stay in seperate neighborhoods until the colonies have reached a similar level of personal wealth and civilization as the Netherlands has.

Good idea.

So in that way- we get rid of a lot of excess population and a lot of those leaving for the Indies have Indies' heritage anyways.

Ah, got it. So you get rid of the non-Europeans from mainland Netherlands whilst at the same time gaining resources, good plan, mines a bit different though:

Plan for the British:

1) Convince Australia to let us dump our excess population in Western Australia + Queensland.

2) Bribe Papuan officials into signing away the sovereignty of PNG, make PNG a part of Australia in the same sort of relationship Greenland has to Denmark.

3) Build massive dams in PNG - build the world's biggest pipeline carrying water from PNG across the Torres straight all the way down to Sydney, NSW and maybe as far as Victoria - use cheap Indonesian labourers to keep costs down. This would effectively irrigate much of Eastern Australia allowing the dusty continent to actually support a decent amount of people for a continent that size.

4) Develop PNG whilst ensuring the traditional society remains the same. Develop essentials such as roads, good governance, food for all, clean water and housing in the few towns and cities.
PNG would have a generous social welfare system funded by the water pipeline - the Aussies and newly settled Brits would pay PNG for the water.

5) Storm Zimbabwe, maybe get help from France or Netherlands. Depose that idiot Mugabe, partition the country into Rhodesia for the whites and Zimbabwe for the blacks - to separate countries. Zimbabwe could be a republic and could go it alone, Rhodesia would be in the commonwealth.

6) Agree with Chile the boundaries between British and Chilean Antarctica, ignore Argentina. Settle the peninsulars and islands of British Antarctica under small domed towns and cities, mine for resources and minerals, fill in abandoned mines with CO2 brought in from coal-fired power stations and other heavy polluters (the CO2 would be trapped, shipped and then stored securely).

7) Abandon Aktiori and Dhekelia, give them to Greek Cyprus.

8) Give Gibraltar independence, but militarily protect it.

9) Bribe Guyanan officials into handing over sovereignty to Britain, partition Guyana into two countries - Guyana (along the coast) and British Guiana (with a small area of coast).
British Guiana would be where we'd get resources from, it'd be settled with Brits and incorporated into England as a county (take that UN decolonization comity ).
Develop Guyana and give it independence.

OK, now everyone knows I'm a evil colonialist

[The Lawspeaker]

Yes, that makes sense and then eventually Rhodesia once developed could become a independent nation modelled on NZ or Australia.

Or join (then former Dutch) South Africa in a new independent Union. We could make sure that the legal systems, the education systems and the economies of South Africa and Rhodesia are already so much like each other that independence and reunification won't cause trouble.

It would appeal to the "adventurous" sort or the sort of people who have next to nothing in Europe, that's how Canada and America were founded.
There's a lot of opportunity that could be had, people could start mining and resource companies who set up farms to supply the Netherlands with food.
I guess such a scheme could be implemented in Guyana too under British rule.

Knowing myself (I love my country a lot but sitting here doing nothing because this country is too small for us and our ideas while there is a world outside is not so attractive to me) I would pick up and try my luck in the colonies.
And I am sure that there are lots of people that think the same way. Back in the good old days they had somewhere to go.. now we just sit here moping around on a forum.
And it could also work for farmers that can't find enough land here. There are vast tracks of arable land over there (mainly in South Africa and Suriname) that are ready to be prepared for use.

Well that's what the British do, the government here lets the territories rule themselves, but it seems unless such territories are incorporated into the nation fully and represented in the parliament like the rest of the nation then they deemed to be "colonies" and the UN get on your case.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_list_of_Non-Self-Governing_Territories (aka "the colonies list")

What we could do is to give them the kind of independence (for the first 50 years) that Canada enjoyed when it was still a Dominion. After that it would be the modern British system with a constitutional monarchy and a lieutenant general ("gouverneur") in her absence. This administrative figure can be an elected native as well as a elected Dutchman) and an elected parliament (Dutch style) and local elected provincial administrations and communal administrations. With only the Statute of the Kingdom and the monarchy (and maybe a pegged currency) tying them to the Netherlands.

But what about multiculturalism? Wouldn't it be a multicultural mess with the Dutch sharing a country with the Surinamese?

It depends on what Surinamese you're talking too. Marons could be a problem. Hindustani and Javanese are usually not. It could actually even be encouraged to mix into the population -mixing with the most intelligent, educated and gracile amogst them and produce a relatively sizeable offspring (3 or 4 children a family ?) while maybe even offering sterilization to those natives with severe genetic conditions so the pace of interbreeding and out-breeding would go faster and then within some generations a mixed population could replace some of the more troublesome elements in society after which the country could become independent as it would be socially, economically politically and culturally and genetically viable. Race mixing ? Yes. But it's in the colonies and ties them to us should why bother: here we should have different standards though.

But perhaps it would be wise to make sure that large groups of Marons get educated and fused into a changing country and the rest maybe "repatriated" to West Africa..

Awww.... So what do you propose to do, swamp the Surinamese population or outbreed them? Good luck.

A dual approach. Both intermixing and outbreeding.

Sounds nice.

It would basically turn into a kind of tropical Netherlands over time with some distinct cultural, racial, historical and linguistic elements that sets them apart from us. Economically: not so as it would grow to the same wealth as we have and probably has an socio-economic system that mirrors our own (collective bargaining and progressive taxes and all). Unless you count out the native tribes that should be left alone anyways.

Yes, I do, a militaristic banana republic.

Exactly. And it should become a modern, friendly state with a functioning economy and democracy. That is as clean as table sheet on a washing line.

They don't have to like China or Japan to be a competitor, but the Netherlands could never compete with a developed country with vast amounts of resources and such a huge labour force as Indonesia's could be.
Keeping sharp is one thing, clambering for economic survival is another.

By that time we could make sure that we have set different agreements with the Indonesians as they would be part of the Commonwealth anyways. It's not like Australia and Canada are competitors for Britain.

Wait, didn't you say South Africa would be white / boer again? It sounds like here that we'd "take civilization" to them as the old colonialists would say (sorry, I couldn't think of better words ), but that's the gist of it - you'd be giving them everything on a silver platter.

Yes. But Afrikaners and Dutch are next of kin so a couple of million Dutch living amongst them and slowly breeding themselves into the Afrikaner bloodline in a time of an Afrikaner surge in the population would not harm them.. maybe even strengthen them. But South Africa would have to be rebuild and that's where Dutch immigrants can help them as reaching 40 million Afrikaners will take time.

That happened in Paraguay (Spaniards+Guarani, latter Italians+Guarano-Spaniards), some people would see that as a positive example, others as a negative. Paraguay did well until Brazil, Argentina and Bolivia flattened it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_triple_alliance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gran_Chaco_War

There will be no one flattening Indonesia as the Japs have learned their lesson and the Chinese are not so aggressive. So it could work pretty well. It could lead to a strengthening of both the European race and the non-European races and to a spread of our language, genes and culture.

Good idea.

We should always be prudent until it is no longer needed.

Ah, got it. So you get rid of the non-Europeans from mainland Netherlands whilst at the same time gaining resources, good plan

Exactly. And there are people with Dutch blood amongst them too (mixed origins) and Dutch that married colonials or people of colonial descent and people with an entrepreunerial and adventerous spirit. In that way we get the best of both worlds: we do ourselves, those people, and the colonies a real favour.
Now that is development aid in a true sense.

[Albion]

Yes. But Afrikaners and Dutch are next of kin so a couple of million Dutch living amongst them and slowly breeding themselves into the Afrikaner bloodline in a time of an Afrikaner surge in the population would not harm them.. maybe even strengthen them. But South Africa would have to be rebuild and that's where Dutch immigrants can help them as reaching 40 million Afrikaners will take time.

Yes, Dutch and Afrikaans are basically the same culture and people, much like Aussies and Kiwis, I thought you meant the Dutch would live side-by-side with black Africans.

[The Lawspeaker]

Yes, Dutch and Afrikaans are basically the same culture and people, much like Aussies and Kiwis, I thought you meant the Dutch would live side-by-side with black Africans.

HELL no. They don't even belong there in the first place. No I meant Afrikaners.

[Albion]

HELL no. They don't even belong there in the first place. No I meant Afrikaners.

Hahaha, true. When the Dutch settled the Cape the Black Africans were just starting to reach South Africa, pretty pathetic really when you consider all they had to do is walk, the Dutch sailed there!