Equality is ultimately just discrimination reversed: South Africa

[Grumpy Cat]

Except what you wrote before was a clear dig at me (as I was the poster that mentioned commenting on youtube)

What? You're paranoid. I had no idea you commented. No, it was a dig at Austin. I'll be clear here, I don't like the guy. OK, I'll be honest and up front I've said this to people in private but the whole forum might as well hear it from me too: I don't like Austin because he reminds me of me when I was his age. And I didn't quite like myself back then.

I actually bet the people from these far-right groups would give them a glass of water. Just like I think you would.

I'm not saying none of them would, but when I surf some far-right sites I often see graphic pictures of the farm murders, which I think is sick that they are parading a picture of a human being's dead body all over the Internet. It's disrespectful and not indicative of a person who cares, and it pisses me off. How would you like it if someone posted a picture of a dead family member of yours all over the Internet?

I have also had a similar experience with my ethnic group and Quebecois extremists, they use our issues in their propaganda but the Acadian community doesn't see a red cent from them... we went from being in abject poverty to now there are even Acadian millionaires and we did that on our own! I am relatively well off, so I give back to my community.

I see parallels here too.

OK, maybe I am taking it too personal.

[Debaser11]

What? You're paranoid.

I had a feeling this was coming. I don't think that's fair considering what I wrote before you and what you wrote a post or two below mine. Furthermore, even if you weren't addressing me personally, that doesn't change my argument one bit.

I had no idea you commented. No, it was a dig at Austin. I'll be clear here, I don't like the guy. OK, I'll be honest and up front I've said this to people in private but the whole forum might as well hear it from me too: I don't like Austin because he reminds me of me when I was his age. And I didn't quite like myself back then.

Fair enough. For the record, I have nothing against either one of you. I like to argue.

I'm not saying none of them would, but when I surf some far-right sites I often see graphic pictures of the farm murders, which I think is sick that they are parading a picture of a human being's dead body all over the Internet. It's disrespectful and not indicative of a person who cares, and it pisses me off.

It may be disrespectful. But that doesn't mean their intent was to be disrespectful. A lot of pro-lifers post terrible pictures of aborted fetuses that I think are disgusting to look at, but that doesn't mean that I doubt their sincerity.

How would you like it if someone posted a picture of a dead family member of yours all over the Internet?

I'd not be too fond of such pictures being posted online. But you seem to be unfairly interpreting their motives in the worst possible light without any evidence to back up whatever hunch it is you have for why they post such photos.

I have also had a similar experience with my ethnic group and Quebecois extremists, they use our issues in their propaganda but the Acadian community doesn't see a red cent from them... we went from being in abject poverty to now there are even Acadian millionaires and we did that on our own! I am relatively well off, so I give back to my community.

I understand.

I see parallels here too.

OK, maybe I am taking it too personal.

My goal is not to upset anyone. I know I do tend to do that though because I like to argue about controversial issues. It's interesting. But I can't control how people react when they enter a thread that is bound to be controversial.

[Grumpy Cat]

I had a feeling this was coming. I don't think that's fair considering what I wrote before you and what you wrote a post or two below mine. Furthermore, even if you weren't addressing me personally, that doesn't change my argument one bit.

I didn't read your post, honestly. I read the OP and responded. I had no idea. I'm sorry if I offended you. You seem like a cool guy. I disagree with a lot of thing you say but the world would be pretty boring if everybody agreed on everything.

It may be disrespectful. But that doesn't mean their intent was to be disrespectful. A lot of pro-lifers post terrible pictures of aborted fetuses that I think are disgusting to look at, but that doesn't mean that I doubt their sincerity.

I'm not talking about disgusting to look at, I'll watch a disgusting gory movie and think nothing of it, I also love CSI and that can get quite gross, but it's not real, it's entertainment. A real dead body is disrespect, even if they don't really mean it, they should show some tact. It's pretty much universal in every culture on earth to put a sheet over a dead body, it's an act of respect towards the person who died. Aborted fetuses, while disgusting, don't really count because abortions are usually performed in the first trimester so they are not living conscious humans yet.

I could bring up a dead guy, a white South African, Eugene Terreblanche, he was killed by two black farm aids... the farm aids didn't just get charged with the murder, but they also got a second charge because they stripped him naked, so they were charged with showing disrespect to a dead body (or whatever that is called in legal terms). Well, posting a picture is no different. I disagreed with that guy's political views (well, I think Boers have a right to preserve their culture and to exist, but he took a more confrontational and extreme way, that even respectful Afrikaner preservationalists like the folks who founded Orania condemn) but he did not deserve to be disrespected in death like that (or to be murdered in the first place, really). He was a human being.

[Austin]

Debaser I wouldn't argue with it, it is in the category of "other" racially anyways hence the leftist dribble it espouses.

[Grumpy Cat]

^^^ Haha... Oh really?



100% European ancestry, DNA test results to prove it.

I just don't call myself "white" because I don't believe it's an ethnicity. I'm Acadian and can proudly stand up and say that, while you are a deracinated Anglo (who oddly enough, thinks he's German) with nothing but material goods, vapid pop culture, and a false identity of "whiteness" to cling to. Thing is, Texas has a vibrant culture that deserves to be preserved. I love Texas. Why don't you embrace that? Get to your real roots. Texan is definitely more interesting than generic WASP. Britney Spears and Black Friday is not culture, the Alamo and traditions around it is.

[Debaser11]

No, you didn't offend. And I know on some level it seems self-absorbed to think you were responding to me in particular. But given the context, it seemed highly likely. You didn't really offend me, either. Please don't think I feel that way about this exchange.

The photos the pro-lifers showed (at least in the particular instance I'm thinking of) were not first trimester. They were late term (and maybe even partial-birth). Obviously those have much greater shock value. And I don't think it's fair to say that first trimester photos don't count. To some people who have strong convictions about the issue, they very much do count. (This gets us into a debate about abortion (which we should probably avoid in this thread), but the feelings many pro-lifers have about early life seem very legitimate.) You're sort of pulling a bait and switch. You're claiming the right to be morally outraged by some photos of corpses you think are obscene but then in the same breath you're claiming that pro-lifers' grievances "don't count."

I'm familiar with the Eugene Terreblanche murder and really don't fault anything he did. I would certainly act the same way if you threw me into his horrid environment. I think that African jurisprudence is also so backwards that their priorities concerning how to charge the murderers hardly represent a standard any serious moral thinker would deem sensible. But I do agree with you that the example does show the generally universal feelings that people have about displaying dead corpses. You're absolutely right to point out that it's distasteful. My guess is that the people that show these pics are trying to be utilitarian about the situation. They are measuring good/bad, pleasure/pain scenarios (which is why I don't like their arguments a lot of time).

"If I show these terrible pictures, then maybe it will wake people up enough so that this nonsense doesn't happen anymore."

I have little doubt that's how their thought process works. Anti-war protestors throughout the latter half of the 20th century have shown similar photos in name of a greater cause--stopping wars.

Showing such photos of human suffering and death (whether to demean Germans or to demean women who get an abortion) is still in bad taste in my view. We're on the same page there, I think. But that doesn't mean the motivations of the people showing the photos wasn't noble.

[Debaser11]

"I just don't call myself "white" because I don't believe it's an ethnicity."

In all fairness, Austin and I are Americans (and Texans as well it seems). You claim Acadian ancestry which is good and well. I'm proud to be Texan but I feel like you're speaking out of your depth when you demean whiteness the same way I would be out of my depth to comment about Acadians who self-identify in that manner. Even our left-leaning U.S. government recognizes that there is something to the label "white" both politically and culturally. I often hear people say in a demeaning manner "oh, that's so white." Certainly the fact that they identify something in that manner has meaning for all practical purposes.

It's a racial category on the census and on job applications. We share a similar background and have similar political interests even according to our own government. People identify by race. That's just a fact of life. Latinos hang around Latinos. Blacks around blacks. Whites around whites. Even the blacks that do hang around whites still identify themselves as "black." Yet, it's only whites whose group niches/group identification is deemed not legitimate.

I do realize that this label does get a bit lost in translation due to geography. But at the same time I feel like it's disingenuous to pretend it has no meaning. If "white" has no meaning, then "Asian" or even "East Asian" has no meaning.

[Austin]

lol AD you attacked me I attack you, ya are feisty though! I hail from a nonchalant attitude towards what constitutes intellectualism and niceties, I care not what people deem acceptable in large measure.

[Murphy]

I think this debate needs a Catholic voice.

[Debaser11]

I think this debate needs a Catholic voice.

Okay, Thomas Aquinas. The floor is yours.