Bulgarians: Slavs or not ?

[Varda]

Pointless thread. Bulgarians are Slavs and Slavs are diverse. Each Slavic group has it's own unique flair. Historically and culturally speaking, Bulgaria was a heavyweight in Slavic world, especially for orthodox Slavs.

According to several medieval sources Bulgaria was full of Vlachs. In most of the middle age Vlachs (East Romance speaking Balkanites) in the Balkans had a peak in Bulgaria. Even Asen dynasty was of Vlach origin.

[PAGANE]

The maps are from a study of Balkan ancient DNA and early medieval DNA by the team of David Reich, Nick Patterson, Olade and Lazaridis, at the Harvard Genetics Laboratory. Look at these names. These are the best, most titled and most cited paleogeneticists in the world. Three changes in the population between the 1st and the tenth century: According to the results of the study, between 0-250 AD, that is, during the Roman Empire, significant changes took place in the Balkans - with the establishment of Roman rule, in the central Balkans a massive component of Anatolian and Middle Eastern origin appears, and the local component is significantly reduced. By local component, the authors mean not only the Thracians, but also the Illyrians from Dalmatia and the Greek Hellenistic civilization; In the second phase - the period (conditionally) between 250 and 550, a new change occurs; take a good look at the map from photo №2. Remind you of something? Yes, for the paradigm of Bulgarian historiography - the central Balkans are inhabited by people with a clear component of the Caucasus steppe, who become the second component of the Balkans and mix with the previous population, which is, in general, also young, a product of mixing massive migration from Anatolia and the Middle East and the local Thracian-Illyrian group. The authors classify the newcomers as "Sarmatians" because they are genetically Sarmatians, an East Iranian group with a distinct component that connects them to the Sarmatian burials of the Ponto-Caucasian steppe and the origins of the Iranian tribes of Central Asia; of course, we cannot say what language these people spoke; but we can say that their origin is Iranian-Sarmatian; along with the "Sarmatians" of the central Balkans, a group similar to modern Western Europeans and Germans appeared, which was also absent in the previous era; whether they are Goths, Gepids or Lombards or all three, he does not know at the moment, but they are also people unknown to the ancient Balkans, newcomers; these two groups, of course, mix with the Romanesque population of the previous epoch; which, let me remind you, is a product of the mixing of local Balkans with large masses of newly arrived Anatolian and Syrian groups; In the third phase (photo three), another powerful demographic component appears in the Balkans, absent from antiquity. It is the most powerful demographic of all emerging and is genetically native to modern northeastern Europe; According to the study, modern Bulgarians wear nearly 40-50% of this component, modern Serbs and Croats wear 50-60%, modern Greeks 20-40%, and so on. There is no place unaffected by the third migration, and according to the study, even the Cretans carry 15% of it, and the Peloponnesians - between 20% and 30. The authors suggest that this component reflects the migration of the Slavs to the Balkans; they are so convinced that they have even signed it;
The steppe component of modern Bulgarians is rather Sarmatian and the study identifies the newly arrived steppes as Iranian-Sarmatians, rather than as Proto-Bulgarian Turks, as is the historical tradition. Of course, such a study cannot guess the language of newcomers; but since the DNA does not coincide with the DNA of the Turkic groups of the same epoch, but with the DNA of the Sarmatian-Iranian groups, the authors have qualified the newcomers from the Caucasus as "Sarmatians" and not as "Turks". Why? Because they had no reason to qualify them as "Turks". For historical science, the population of the Pontic steppe from antiquity is Sarmatian; It bases its claims on linguistics (the names of the Sarmatian chiefs), culture - the old, well-attested Scythian-Sarmatian burial culture of Pontus and Central Asia, and genetics - hundreds of specimens of Scythian and Sarmatian burials have been sequenced; most are clearly distinguishable from the Turkic, although they also have a Siberian and some a Far Eastern component. The population that arrived in the central Balkans during the Great Migration, according to the authors, is Sarmatian and of Caucasian steppe origin. Currently, the Reich team is working on 3 more studies in an advanced phase - Bulgarian (maybe the people in eastern Bulgaria are still different during the First Bulgarian State?), Slovenian and Greek, which, I believe, will shed much more light on the dramas. of the Balkans during the First Bulgarian State, the migration of the southern Slavs and the creation of the First Bulgarian State, as well as the fate of the Greeks from antiquity and the origin of the modern Greeks. Some of the samples have already been sequenced. Once again a hyperlink to the study *S.Stamov* https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...BsphgDO49ccvcU

[Varda]

By language -Yes
In genetics - I would not say, but we have a Slavic influence.
By self-awareness - only Bulgarians

Bulgarian language is Slavic, but due to significant non-Slavic (Vlach & Greek) influence belong to Balkan sprachbund together with Albanian, Greek, East Romance languages etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkan_sprachbund

[Jana]

Bulgarian language is Slavic, but due to significant non-Slavic (Vlach & Greek) influence belong to Balkan sprachbund together with Albanian, Greek, East Romance languages etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkan_sprachbund

Torlakian too

[Jana]

Balkan Slavs, including Romanians and Yugos, are Greek Slavic, as Western Slavs are German Slavic.

proper Slavs are only Russians (Veliko-, Malo- and Belo-)

nope, but nice try.

[Tommie]

Balkan Slavs, including Romanians and Yugos, are Greek Slavic, as Western Slavs are German Slavic.

proper Slavs are only Russians (Veliko-, Malo- and Belo-)

Nice joke.

[Varda]

Torlakian too

Torlakian is not separate language.

[Blondie]

...

Politics: Bulgarian Nationalist
Religion Egyptian Paganism

[Jana]

Torlakian is not separate language.

It is part of Balkan sprachbund, while standard Serbian is not. Interesting....

[Varda]

It is part of Balkan sprachbund, while standard Serbian is not. Interesting....

Torlakian is peripheral Serbian dialect bordering with Macedonian and Bulgarian language. Except SE Serbs native Torlakian speakers are most western Bulgarians near border with Serbia, part of NE Macedonians, Gorani and Krashovani. According to some linguists Torlakian is "bridge" between SW and SE Slavic languages.

This is old/original/native speech of Niš (Torlakian sub-dialect) and i understand 100% regardless i have nothing to do with SE Serbia, on the other hand Bulgarian (standard) is roughly 2/3 understandable to me https://youtu.be/tWXtC0SYYg0