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Thread: Apricity's relevance as a discussion forum community is increasing by the day

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by abcd123 View Post
    Lol at your sig man.I take it you don't like David Cameron?
    No, I don't like him at all
    Help support Apricity by making a donation

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    Veteran Member noricum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    To be fair, many (probably most) of the Syrian refugees are genuine refugees. Their country is falling apart, and it's not their fault. But the West should have seen this coming when they invaded Iraq, and fomented and supported uprisings in Libya and Syria. Now we are paying the price for that.
    Syrians are refugees when tey enter the first safe country such as Jordan or Turkey. Every other border they cross makes them migrants in pursuit for a better life. Thus they should be correctly called migrants once they enter Europe (uncontrolled), I don't blame them, they would be stupid if they wouldnt try.
    Even people arround me who voted for the Green party for decades now start to realise it can't go on like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Now we are paying the price for that.
    They are coming to us because we don't do anything against it, although we would have all the means to do so. And we for this we will have to pay the price.

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    Veteran Member Lisa's Avatar
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by blizzard View Post
    Be sure, your government will find money for them, no matter how wealthy or poor country is. Migrants can have about 50 euros per day and free living room without care about work.
    I know, this is what I am saying - they will have gift from the government, apartments, jobs. While native Poles quite often do not have this comfort.

    What I think about this whole situation is:

    American politics started it. The United States destroyed stable enough governments leading to the complete anarchy. They promised locals bringing democracy, and other positive stuff, while in practise they just destroyed everything around and left people with all this mess. I am not saying it were only Americans - unfortunately, the whole Coalition of the willing took part in this destabilizing madness and here I am talking in particular about: the USA, Australia, Poland, United Kingdom, who contributed troops to the invasion force. Now we - simple civilians of simple countries are paying the price of our governments stupidity.

    This is why I can understand politicians attitude towards greeting refugees - these governments are responsible for what is happening. However, they also forgot, that main goal of politics is building a comfortable country for the nation at first place. What [Polish, because I mostly follow what happens at my place] politicans promise to the immigrants/refugees is just a bullshit. They want to give them money, while Poles are in fact forced to escape from Poland to another countries to earn some normal money. They want to give them places to live, while many young Poles (also those in their 30s-40s) are forced to live with their parents, because buying an apartment is too expensive. They will also give them a job, while many Poles cannot find it here and even people with higher education have to clean some shit on the streets.

    I am not opposed toward letting some numbers of refugees to stay here for a while. But I oppose making them feel like in home. With such attitude these refugees may change their behaviour and start to act like in Western Europe, while in fact the country must be strong enough and treat refugees and immigrants as foreigners. In Western Europe people have these distcrits with "sharia law", what is an absurd. If they will have to come here, I'd like to see that my law enforcement is able to deal with such morons, caught them, put in jail and send back to Syria. You come to Poland, then respect Polish law, putting your sharia in the ass. I am quite optimistic though, as I am almost sure, that if any Muslim here will start to act in suspicious ways, our citizens will be able to deal with them by themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caxtiltēcatl View Post
    I disagree completely. Onr million war refugees in a population of 500 million isn't going to change anything that hasn't been changed already after 7 decades of Americans and their cultural globalisation and prioaganda machine haven't achieved yet. In essence tgetels no difference between germans, french, spaniards, britons an italians. our "regional" cultured are long dead anyway aside from isolated and ageing pueblos of the "dark" zone of the light-pollution-map.

    The folk residues like the feria de abril or the oktober fest are just meaningless tourist attractions.

    Simply observed it could be understood you are right.

    But it is not only a question of figures.

    It is a question of time.

    Perhaps these refugees can't cause big problems in the short term, but they could in the medium term.

    Why? Because of their belief, which demand them to spread it to the others. Anyhow.

    A belief which has nothing to do with the european culture, in some cases it is just straightly opposite to it.

    And they have lastly -or rather always- picked the violence and the terrorism as a tool to force the others to have their beliefs.

    Don't forget the so many "normal" muslims have already act as terrorists in Europe.

    Don't forget a war (jihad) against West is declared.

    Don't forget Christian Churches aren't usually allowed in the muslim countries.

    And if allowed, I think most of them were already burned to their basements -even with people inside.

    However West World offers tolerance and respect to any belief. And protect that.

    They are taking advantage from this way to live and to understand.

    But they don't allow in their countries this kind of life and understanding.

    They don't tend to respect these customs nor these norms.

    They attempt more and more frequently to force the others their norms and even their custums.

    The more they grow the more harshly shout against the norms, the customs and the laws of the countries which admit them.

    What to do then?
    Last edited by EL_BARBARO; 09-23-2015 at 06:41 PM.

  6. #26
    from the old aragonese crown ius semper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    This is my point of view, due to the massive influx of refugees and economic migrants in recent weeks from the Middle East, Asia, Africa etc. It seems the very fabric of European culture and society is put under threat. This situation could eventually change the demographics and face of Europe forever, like the Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban has warned.

    Hungary, Slovakia and the Czech Republic seem to be at the forefront in guarding the borders. Some international critics argue Orban is too harsh/extreme, but he raises very valid points that should be considered by all of Europe. People should not just think of the present, but of the long-term consequences of what is happening now. European society as we know it seems under threat. It is the sheer scale of the influx which is most concerning. I personally am no xenophobe or racist, but common sense is common sense. Europe just cannot cope with this amount of immigrants, and this is only the present. How will Europe look like in, say, 50 or 100 years from now?

    A cleric (from Lebanon I think?) said that the migrants should "breed with Europeans in order to conquer Europe eventually". Of course that is just inflammatory rhetoric and I have no doubt that the vast majority of refugees are genuine (especially from Syria) and should be helped. But the root causes should be tackled, and soon. I think it is clear by now that the US's previous military adventures in Iraq has left a void waiting to be filled. And in Syria, America's support for the rebels has just prolonged the civil war, which could have been over by now if the US and other countries like Qatar and Saudi Arabia did not support the uprising or so-called "Arab Spring". Look at Libya ... it was very stable under Gaddafi, and he was even becoming more mild and tried to mend relations in Europe. What was his reward? Regime change, and his death. Today Libya is a failed state with no functioning government. So, can anyone blame people from trying to flee these nightmare scenarios? I really feel for these refugees. But relocating them all to Europe is not the answer. It is effectively a brain drain on Syria. Who will be left there to rebuild the country after the war has ended?

    Angela Merkel is partially (to a great extent) to blame for the massive increase in refugees wanting to go to Germany. This could change the face of Germany forever. Did she consult with the German people on this very serious matter before inviting them all to come? Her actions are inexplicable and irrational.

    I really can't understand why the US does not want to work with Syria's government in order to get rid if ISIL. Hopefully Putin's initiative to form a broader coalition against these brutal, inhumane terrorists will bear fruit and end the unnecessary civil war.

    So, my point with this thread is that Apricity as a European Cultural Community is a very relevant place for people to discuss Europe's future and its current challenges.
    Your friend putin ( who I do consider a great leader ) has just built a massive mask in moscow
    🇪🇸

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ius semper View Post
    Your friend putin ( who I do consider a great leader ) has just built a massive mask in moscow

    Yeah, unbelievable. The world biggest one, I think.

    Attempt to build a Church in their countries and wait and see.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by noricum View Post
    They are coming to us because we don't do anything against it,
    So are you suggesting that Western support of the uprising in Syria has nothing to do with it? It has everything to do with it.
    Help support Apricity by making a donation

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    No, I don't like him at all
    Now I am starting to feel the same about him too.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bezprym View Post
    I know, this is what I am saying - they will have gift from the government, apartments, jobs. While native Poles quite often do not have this comfort.

    What I think about this whole situation is:

    American politics started it. The United States destroyed stable enough governments leading to the complete anarchy. They promised locals bringing democracy, and other positive stuff, while in practise they just destroyed everything around and left people with all this mess. I am not saying it were only Americans - unfortunately, the whole Coalition of the willing took part in this destabilizing madness and here I am talking in particular about: the USA, Australia, Poland, United Kingdom, who contributed troops to the invasion force. Now we - simple civilians of simple countries are paying the price of our governments stupidity.

    This is why I can understand politicians attitude towards greeting refugees - these governments are responsible for what is happening. However, they also forgot, that main goal of politics is building a comfortable country for the nation at first place. What [Polish, because I mostly follow what happens at my place] politicans promise to the immigrants/refugees is just a bullshit. They want to give them money, while Poles are in fact forced to escape from Poland to another countries to earn some normal money. They want to give them places to live, while many young Poles (also those in their 30s-40s) are forced to live with their parents, because buying an apartment is too expensive. They will also give them a job, while many Poles cannot find it here and even people with higher education have to clean some shit on the streets.

    I am not opposed toward letting some numbers of refugees to stay here for a while. But I oppose making them feel like in home. With such attitude these refugees may change their behaviour and start to act like in Western Europe, while in fact the country must be strong enough and treat refugees and immigrants as foreigners. In Western Europe people have these distcrits with "sharia law", what is an absurd. If they will have to come here, I'd like to see that my law enforcement is able to deal with such morons, caught them, put in jail and send back to Syria. You come to Poland, then respect Polish law, putting your sharia in the ass. I am quite optimistic though, as I am almost sure, that if any Muslim here will start to act in suspicious ways, our citizens will be able to deal with them by themselves.
    I agree with what you have written here. However, I think some of the rich Arab countries need to take some of these refugees. They are their own, after all.

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