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Thread: The Hellenes and the Greeks

  1. #11
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    The Mycenaean's and Minoans were as Greek as Socrates and Plato. The entire Greek religion is founded on the deification of Cretan kings. The height of power of the gods was during the Hyksos period before the 
Thera Eruption between 1700 and 1628 BC. We have the names of gods including 
Saturn, Zeus, Sarapis extant in 
Egyptian and Linear A inscriptions as kings from that period, Satur, Sheshi as well as the names of other Greek kings who ruled over Egypt 
including Epaphus and Agenor.

    The Mycenaean's were the same people as the Minoans. The Minoans were proto-Aeolic-Ionic Greeks. The Mycenaean's were Achaean Greeks.

    The Pelasgians did not exist before 1600 BC at the earliest so anything 
before that time cannot possible in any way be called Pelasgian. Nor can it 
be called pre-Greek since the Greeks were already in the Greek peninsular by 
2200 BC and had reached Mycenae by 1600 BC and that is exactly when the 
Pelasgians first appear in the historical record being Argive Greeks who 
migrated to Arcadia and then moved to Thessaly in 1450 BC as well as 
founding colonies in Italy at the same time.

    The genealogy and pattern of migration is well known to all historians.

    1606 Pelasgus (son of Niobe daughter of Phoroneus the founder of Argos)

    1685 Aezeius

    1560 Lycaon

    1507 Pelasgus + Deianira (daughter of Lycaon)

    1488 Lycaon II

    1455 Calisto

    1420 Arcas (founder of Arcadia)
    1507 Pelasgus

    1472 Haemon (king of Thessaly)

    1430 Thessalus
    
1405 Graecus (after whom the Greeks were so called)

    Dionysus of Halicarnassus clearly states that the 
Aboriginals "from whom the Romans are originally descended" were Arcadian 
Pelasgians.

    "the Aborigines can be a colony of no other people but of those who are now 
called Arcadians; 2 for these were the first of all the Greeks to cross the 
Ionian Gulf, under the leadership of Oenotrus, the son of Lycaon, and to 
settle in Italy. This Oenotrus was the fifth from Aezeius and Phoroneus, who 
were the first kings in the Peloponnesus. For Niobe was the daughter of 
Phoroneus, and Pelasgus was the son of Niobe and Zeus"


    The Greeks WERE the so-called Minoans (who aren't 
even named correctly since Minos I did not reign until 1406 BC which is 
during the Mycenaean period). They easily conquered the existing population 
of solitary farmers and small villages and were the most likely cause of the 
First Intermediate Period in Egyptian history which 2181-2055 BC. Later in 1900 BC a second 
wave arrived in northern Greece pushing the first wave further south and 
east and the stone palaces at Troy and in Crete start to appear and Linear A 
is developed.

    This coincided with the time that the kings who would later 
become the Orphic gods, so named after Orpheus (1260 BC) who was the first 
to worship them, Hydros, Khronos, Aither, Phanes, Nyx and her son 
Uranus/

    It was Minos who built the Sea Empire of Crete and he was descended from Agenor who was descended from Inachus who was the grandfather of Pelasgus which suggests the Pelasgians came to Crete in 1420 BC.

    The Minoan civilisation only picks up and writing 
is invented when the Greeks arrive in the north. The majority of the body of Linear A was decoded using computer 
statistical analysis as being a dialect of Aeolic Greek and another sample 
was decoded as being proto-Ionic Greek.
    http://www.anistor.gr/english/enback/v014.htm

    Tsikritsis has published his work and no one has been able to refute it. It is the most extensive and scientifically based study ever carried out on Linear A and its shows it to be a dialect of Aeolic Greek.

    The point is that before the Greeks arrived there was no writing and 
when they did there was. That means that Linear A was invented as a 
consequence of the Greeks arriving and therefore it was most likely invented 
to record Greek. This is also supported by the used of Cypriot Linear Script 
in Cyprus to write Greek which was still extant until 400 BC.

    So the term Minoans is a misnomer and an invention of fiction. The people who built the stone palaces in Crete and Troy were the people whowere newly arrived in Greece at the time these palaces first appear and these are the Greeks.

    The Eteocretans were only regarded as not being Hellenes. That 
does not mean that they were not regarded as Greeks. The word Hellenes was not 
coined as a collective term until the first Olympiad in 776 BC. No Ancient writer ever said the Eteocretans were not Greek. In fact according to Homer their language overlapped with 
the languages of the Achaeans, Dorians and Pelasgains. The only way this 
could be possible is if the Eteocretans were indo-Europeans and their 
language was descended from proto-Greek and most likely to be have been a 
dialect of proto-Aeolic or proto-Mycenaean.

    "There is a fair and fruitful island in mid-ocean called Crete; it is 
thickly peopled and there are nine cities in it: the people speak many 
different languages which overlap one another, for there are Achaeans, brave 
Eteocretans, Dorians of three-fold race, and noble Pelasgi."

    Homer's Odyssey states in perfectly clear 
language that the Eteocretans the Pelasgians the Dorians and the Achaeans 
all spoke related Greek dialects.
    Last edited by wvwvw; 09-19-2016 at 02:20 AM.

  2. #12
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    The Dorian invasion in the 12th century BCE did not destroy the indigenous Mycenean and Minoan cultures. The Mythology is proof of this since Hercules was Perseus his Great Grand Father
 and Cassiopeia the princess of Phonetia his Great Grand Mother indication
 the Myceneans were assimilated. Further more Minos would not have been
 regarded as the Son of Zeus if the Cretan Minoans were destroyed by the Hellenes.

    In the mid-15thC BCE Knossos was destroyed by fire. In the 16 th C BC Crete was the main power in the Aegean. By 1450 Greeks had
 migrated to Crete in progressive waves and assimilated. Cretan Linear script was the proto Greek language. Subsequently Crete declined and Mycenae became
 powerful. The destruction of Cnossos in that period was by an Earthquake.

  3. #13
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    Pelagos means sea in Greek. So Pelasgoi means seafarers or people of the sea' as inscribed in temples in Egypt. The Sea Peoples consisted of among others the the Pelasgi (Pelast), Danai (Tanja), Achaeans (Ekwesh) and Teukrians (Tjeker). There were also Spartans (Spat) referred to.

    Pelagos means sea. But if we break the word Pelagos it is actually two words, Pela meanig "settlement" which is from the same European root as "village" and "polis" and "Ges" or "Gias" meaning land or earth. Therefore Pelagos means "land that can be settled" and this is exactly the same meaning as Aigialea which means "Land by the Sea" or "Ai-gia-lea" from "Gialo" meaning coastal sea which is actual "Gia allo" meaning "other kind of land" and "Ai" which in all likelihood a shortened form of "Pela".
    https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/γιαλός

    Therefore the only difference is the difference between between Pelago and Pelasgi is the "s".

    Because ancient Greece used to be called by the name of Pelasgia and before that Aigialea it is highly likely that these words are acutely the same word.

    If the component parts of both words were written together in Linear-B it is obvious where the "s" comes from since in Linear-B the final "s" was inserted by the reader at the end of each word rather than being written down, which is probably also the reason why Greek has two symbols for "s" one which is used in the middle of words and another which is only used at the end. Also with Linear-B all the ending infections of the words were generated by the reader.

    Thus Pelago, Pelasgia and Aigialea derive from

    Pe-R/La-(s) G/Ki-(a) (a)-R/Li

    which gives

    Pe-R/La-(s) G/Ki-(a) = Pe-La-(s)-Gi-(a) = Pelasgia

    Pe-R/La-(s) G/Ki-(a) = Pe-La-Gi-(o) = Pelago

    (...)-R/La G/Ki-(a) (a)-R/Li = (a)-Gi-a-Li-(a) = Agialea

    The Arcadians were the same people as the Aigialeans. All you have to do is look at the name Arkas who was the king Arkadia was named after. In Linear-B K would be interchangeable with G therefore Arkas is the same name as Argas or Argos thus the Arkadians were Argives and the Argives were also Aigialeans since Phoroneus was the brother of Aigialeus.

    If you the name Arkadia derives from the name Arkas then the "dia" in the name has to mean "land" and must be a corruption of the word "gia", therefore Arkadia is also Arga-gia which must be the same word as Aigialea.

    The most likely scenario is that Arkadia was populated by the decedents of two tribes, one of which was there originally and probably came from Crete and the other which moved in later on.

    Each tribe pronounced Pe-R/La-(s) G/Ki-(a) (a)-R/Li in different ways

    In fact the above suggest that there may have been three different tribes which occupied the land since each of the words Pe-R/La-(s), G/Ki-(a) and (a)-R/Li means HOME. Pe-R/La-(s) is "settlement", G/Ki-(a) is "land" and "(a)-R/Li" is also the same word as Area meaning "open land" which can have the meaning of Sea. So all the words meaning home were combined into the name of the land.

    In fact Pe-R/La-(s) G/Ki-(a) (a)-R/Li may have also been the royal title of the king of the land which was later shorted to Arcas, or Argus or Pelasgus, or Aigialeus.

    What we know is that Greece was not called Hellas until 776 BC about 200 years after Homer therefore Hellas has to be a corruption of "Pe-R/La-(s)" meaning "settlement".

    The land was only called Greece by the Greeks who colonised Italy and these Greeks who were the first colonists were Arkadians led by Oenotrus the son of Lycaon in about 1460 BC. Therefore Greece must be a corruption of the phrase "G/Ki-(a) (a)-R/Li-(s)" meaning "land which is open" indicating it was composed of islands surrounded by sea.

    In fact "Pe-R/La-(s)" sounds so close to "G/Ki-(a) (a)-R/Li-(s)" that it is most probably a corruption of that phrase which was made by one of the tribes which colonised Greece who picked up the phrase from the first settlers who were in Crete and Cyprus in 7000 BC whcih is when the Greek language was born and out of Greek were born all the other European languages and the Phoenician language.

    It was not until between 1350 BC and 1100 BC that the distinction between R and L and between K and G was made by the Greeks otherwise they would have included extra letters in Linear-B. Nor was there a distinction between P and B.
    Last edited by wvwvw; 09-20-2016 at 08:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thevillager View Post
    Why the constant references to the gods when talking about lineages?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Aemilius View Post
    Why the constant references to the gods when talking about lineages?
    What you mean?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raine View Post
    What you mean?
    The claim of descent from Zeus, Herakles, etc.


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    I thought that Greeks and Hellenes are the same people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quagmire85 View Post
    I thought that Greeks and Hellenes are the same people.
    They are essentially the same thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quagmire85 View Post
    I thought that Greeks and Hellenes are the same people.
    It's common knowledge that Greek is the English name for Hellenic or Ellinas in the Greek langauge. It derives from the Latin spelling of the original spelling.


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