Paleo-Atlantid examples

**chociprasa** · 12-01-2019, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by The Blade

This individual fits easily as an Anglo-Saxon on the more robust side of the spectrum (as Trønder, too).

How so? The guy I posted doesn't seem to have any sort of Nordid admixture facial-featurewise; Anglo-Saxons and Trønder have another type of nose, another type of jaw, (in the case of Anglo-Saxons) usually more compressed zygos, another type of ear etc. I've seen people here who have looked similar to him (profilewise, especially the nose is an archaic CM trait and can be found among the Paleo-Atlantids and Strandids here) and Lundman's examples from Dalarna.

**The Blade** · 12-01-2019, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by chociprasa

How so? The guy I posted doesn't seem to have any sort of Nordid admixture facial-featurewise; Anglo-Saxons and Trønder have another type of nose, another type of jaw, (in the case of Anglo-Saxons) usually more compressed zygos, another type of ear etc. I've seen people here who have looked similar to him (profilewise, especially the nose is an archaic CM trait and can be found among the Paleo-Atlantids and Strandids here) and Lundman's examples from Dalarna.

Both the Anglo-Saxon and Trønder are variable blends of Cro-Magnon and Nordic. His nose is CM. Can be found among Brunns and Dalofaelids, too. He is facially more elongated than the typical Faelid though and in facial dimensions diverges from the Brunn type. He has a leptoprosopic influence which judging by the general face shape (and forehead, too) seems to come from a Nordic element rather than from a Mediterranean one.

**~~Atlantid~~** · 12-01-2019, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by Mr.G

I think Paleo-Atlantid is CM + Atlanto-Med.

Paleoatlantid is Faelid + Atlanto-Med

**chociprasa** · 12-01-2019, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by The Blade

Both the Anglo-Saxon and Trønder are variable blends of Cro-Magnon and Nordic. His nose is CM. Can be found among Brunns and Dalofaelids, too. He is facially more elongated than the typical Faelid though and in facial dimensions diverges from the Brunn type. He has a leptoprosopic influence which judging by the general face shape (and forehead, too) seems to come from a Nordic element rather than from a Mediterranean one.

Paleo-Atlantid is by no means a Mediterranid type, it's about as Mediterranid as Berid or Alpinid, the only thing that's Mediterranid about it is the pigmentation - for which I think you're confusing it for a Med type. Hear Lundman describe the origin of the type:

The Palaeo-Atlantids are relatively unmixed and unaltered descendants of the Palaeolithic West European and North African Cro-Magnid race. The Cro-Magnids followed northwards the retreating ice boundary at the end of the Pleistocene. They lived as specialized hunters of the fauna inhabiting this part of Europe. The Palaeo-Atlantids were never as depigmented as the Faelish and Scando-Nordid tribes who migrated after them.

2nd Tydalrasen (so named after a parish in Norway) right tall (approx. 174 cm.) Adults with serious and very short legs and long arms. Low-and long-headed (BLI c. 75) face short and wide (AI 80-85), four-to hexagonal with a steep profile, protruding chin, the law is steep forehead, heavy eyebrows, and short arms and the right bredtruggig UPTURNED NOSE (among men is that However, sometimes broad and flat in a very characteristic way). Black hair brown, not black-and right eyes dark, dull. Eyebrows all the way through rough and often fused. Strong growth of beard. Distribution: Perhaps only the same kind of full of Scandinavia and the British islands' most inaccessible areas. Related types exist, however, here and there in Western Europe all the way south to the Canary Islands.

The guy I posted has a very uniquely Paleo-Atlantid nose, which looked similar to examples you posted from Lundman's photographies. Would you like to show me a Brünn/Faelid individual with the same type of short, flat, upturned nose to his? His face (the midface) is not leptoprosopic, you're fooled by the length and protrusion of his mandible, typical for this type (which in his case is more likely the result of CM admixture and Nordid admixture), not to mention that his nose and philtrum is too short to indicate Nordid admixture.

**The Blade** · 12-01-2019, 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by chociprasa

Paleo-Atlantid is by no means a Mediterranid type, it's about as Mediterranid as Berid or Alpinid, the only thing that's Mediterranid about it is the pigmentation - for which I think you're confusing it for a Med type. Hear Lundman describe the origin of the type:

The guy I posted has a very uniquely Paleo-Atlantid nose, which looked similar to examples you posted from Lundman's photographies. Would you like to show me a Brünn/Faelid individual with the same type of short, flat, upturned nose to his? His face (the midface) is not leptoprosopic, you're fooled by the length and protrusion of his mandible, typical for this type (which in his case is more likely the result of CM admixture and Nordid admixture), not to mention that his nose and philtrum is too short to indicate Nordid admixture.

I didn't say it's a Med type but a Cro-Magnon one with Mediterranean admixture.
Nor did I mention anything about guy you posted having a Nordid nose - of course, he doesn't.
This nose shape is shared by Cro-Magnon types in general. Slightly concave is a better way to describe it, since true flat noses are in fact present among some Mongoloid and Negroid groups.

**chociprasa** · 12-01-2019, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by The Blade

I didn't say it's a Med type but a Cro-Magnon one with Mediterranean admixture.
Nor did I mention anything about guy you posted having a Nordid nose - of course, he doesn't.
This nose shape is shared by Cro-Magnon types in general. Slightly concave is a better way to describe it, since true flat noses are in fact present among some Mongoloid and Negroid groups.

Well, the type doesn't have any Mediterran(id) admixture at all, it's just a non-depigmented CM type without any other admixture. And I didn't say that he had a Nordid nose, just that his midface isn't leptoprosopic enough to indicate that he would have any kind of Nordid admixture, which you said could be used as evidence as to why he would have Nordid admixture. And the nose shape (atleast from the side/profile, I agree that the type of nose from the front can be found among atleast Faelid individuals, but it isn't usually as concave from the side as it is in Paleo-Atlantid individuals like this guy) is what differentiates this type from the other CM types. The flatness of it is also what makes it what it is.

**The Blade** · 12-02-2019, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by chociprasa

Well, the type doesn't have any Mediterran(id) admixture at all, it's just a non-depigmented CM type without any other admixture. And I didn't say that he had a Nordid nose, just that his midface isn't leptoprosopic enough to indicate that he would have any kind of Nordid admixture, which you said could be used as evidence as to why he would have Nordid admixture. And the nose shape (atleast from the side/profile, I agree that the type of nose from the front can be found among atleast Faelid individuals, but it isn't usually as concave from the side as it is in Paleo-Atlantid individuals like this guy) is what differentiates this type from the other CM types. The flatness of it is also what makes it what it is.

Well, we reached consensus about some things but have certain disagreements about others.
That's fine though - where there are people, discussions exist.
As for types you mentioned earlier, Alpine has nothing Mediterranean, as it is well-known (I agree about this).
Berid type of Lundman corresponds to Renato Biasutti's Paleo-Sardinian which is described as a mix of Med, CM and Alpine. It's like a reduced Paleo Atlantid. Some sources mistakenly rate it as dolichocephalic when in fact authors rated it as brachy.