First Bosniak Congress

[Jana]

Matej Ninoslav call inhabitants of Bosnia SERBS (Сръблина) and people from Dubrovnik he call Vlachs (Влаха).

Croatians lived only in western Bosnia, and western Bosnia was not part of medieval Bosnia.
Western Bosnia was known as "Turkish Croatia" in Ottoman period. Real medieval Bosnia is from Vrbas to Drina rivers, and proto-Bosnia (geographical area which formed in 12th century) is small are around Vrhbosna, Fojnica, Kreševo, Bobobac and Hodidjed (present day centra/eastern Bosnia).

Well, population of Bosnia is genetically far closer to Croatia than to Serbia. Keep in mind i did not say to Croats or Serbs .

In my opinion Bosnia became distinct quite early, both in history and identity, but ethnically speaking they are pretty much same as Croats south from Sava (and western Serbs)

If people of Bosnia are real Serbs as you claim, and of southern Dalmatia as well, than Serbs from Serbia are something else, because these two populations are not the same , except those with dinaric roots.

[Pribislav]

Pa ne zvuci bas Srpski.

Surname Ninković is common among Serbs from eastern Herzegovina.
Many of them in the past migrated from eastern Herzegovina in other regions, and this surname is pretty common among Serbs from Glamoč area (imigrants from eastern Herzegovina). In Serbia there is a lot of Ninkovići which arrived from eastern Herzegovina.
Serbian actor Slobodan Ninković oroginated from Glamoč, but far origin of his family is from eastern Herzegovina https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slobodan_Ninković
Serbian actress Nataša ninković is from Trebinje https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nataša_Ninković
Ninkovići from Trebinje are I2-PH908.

[Jovan Ovcar]

There was no any Bosniak Slavic tribe which arrived to Bosnia.
Bosnia was geographical area formed in 12th century around Vrhbosna, Visoko and Hodidjed.
Ban Matej Ninoslav in charter from mid of 13th century call own people inhabitants of Bosnia - Serbs (underlined with red color)

I never said there was a Bosniak slavic tribe that came here. Re-read again if you need to.

Matej Ninoslavs charter causes no problem to anyone, with a war preparing between Serbia and Ragusa it was a natural move for Bosnia to define it's stance in the conflict. The telling part about it is that never in history are Ragusans called Vlachs, but we do know that Vlachs served Ragusans as caravan escorts and hinterland settlers.

Lmao, Ban Matej Ninoslav calls his people Serbs.

I am pretty sure it is falsification, otherwise post original dokument.

What is next , Hrvoje will become Serb name as well ?

Matej Ninoslav with Ban title was obviously a Croat.

Read the Croatian wiki page, the "charter" is actually an attachment meant to be an addition to a larger document regarding the upcoming Serbo-Ragusan war. I expected more honesty from people that debate me than this shit, hoping the opponent won't know basic history and will fall for this.

[Pribislav]

I never said there was a Bosniak slavic tribe that came here. Re-read again if you need to.

Matej Ninoslavs charter causes no problem to anyone, with a war preparing between Serbia and Ragusa it was a natural move for Bosnia to define it's stance in the conflict. The telling part about it is that never in history are Ragusans called Vlachs, but we do know that Vlachs served Ragusans as caravan escorts and hinterland settlers.



Read the Croatian wiki page, the "charter" is actually an attachment meant to be an addition to a larger document regarding the upcoming Serbo-Ragusan war. I expected more honesty from people that debate me than this shit, hoping the opponent won't know basic history and will fall for this.

U ime Oca i Sina i Svatoga Duha amin!
Az rab Božiji Matej, a odmjelom Ninoslav, ban bas'nski veliki, kle se u knezu
Dubrov'čkomu Žan Dandolu i vsej općine Dubrov'čkoj.
Takvom s'm kletv'ju klel, kakom se ja banom Kulin klel:
Da hode Vlasi slobodno, ih dobit'k, tako kako su u bana Kulina hodili, bez vse habe i zledi. A ja kudje oblada, tudje si hodite prostrano i zdravo, a ja prijati kako-re sam sebje, i nauk dati od vse zledi.
A se pisah, imenom Desoje, gramatig bana Ninoslava, velijega bos'nskoga, tako vjerno kako-re u prvih.
A se ješte: ako vjeruje Srbljin Vlaha, da se pri knezom: ako vjeruje Vlah Srbljina, da se pri banom, a inomu Vlahu da se bude izma. Bože-re ti daj zdravije.

Bosanski vladari su sebe nazivali Srbima, kao što su Srbljem nazivali svoje stanovništvo.
Tvrtko Kotromanić se krunisao za kralja Srba, Bosne, Pomorja i Zapadnijh strana na grobu Stevog Save u manastiru Mileševa. Da bi istakao jednorodnost dinastije Nemanjića i Kotromanića, Tvrtko stavlja ispred svog krštenog imena ime Stefan, što znači "vjenčani" (onaj koji je krunisan). U svojim poveljana ime Stefan Tvrtko ističe veoma često, kao što u poveljama često ističe srpska zemlja ili Srblje kao jedinu etničku odrednicu. Tvrko jasno ističe porijeklo "roditelja moji gospode srpske."

@ Stearsolina
Povelja bana Mateja Ninoslava je pisana na (i)jekavici, a znamo svi da su Hrvati prihvatili srpsku (i)jekavicu u doba "ilirskog pokreta."
Ima i danas Hrvata koji preziru (i)jekavicu, jer je smatraju srpskim uvoznim proizvodom u Hrvatskoj koji je došao sa Srbima iz Istočne Hercegovine, Crne Gore i Raške.
Evo kakav prezir iskreni Hrvati pokazuju prema (i)jekavici na kojoj je pisana povelja bana Matej Ninoslava (oni smatraju ikavicu i ekavicu, a pogotovo ikavicu izvorno hrvatskom)
U zamalo svim inim hrvatskim etnoprostorima su su izvorni materinski jekavci među katoličkim Hrvatima tek beznačajne manjinme ili posve izostaju. tj prisilno nauče javnu jekavicu tek od škole u većim gradovima, dok u okolnim selima i dalje govore bar privatno i u obitelji uglavnom nejekavski sve do starosti. U tim inim nejekavskim prostorima Hrvatske su zamalo jedini pravi i izvorni jekavci pravoslavni "Vlasi" tj. prekodrinski Srbi-Prečani, uz manji udjel doseljenih islamskih Bošnjaka. Zbog čestog "dadakanja" uz obilne turcizma i balkanizme u rječniku, ovi srbojekavci uglavnom pripadaju u Balkanski Sprachbund. U zadnjih dvadesetak godina do početka 21. st. se u Hrvatskoj zbog odselidbe duplo smanjio broj pravoslavnih srbojekavaca, ali su njih nakon nedavnog rata dijelom opet zamijenili novodoseljeni jekavski Bošnjaci

Kao što vidiš autor izražava veliki prezir prema (i)jekavici, smastrajući je ne-hrvatskom "uveženom robom" koja je u Hrvatsku došla sa pravoslavnim Srbima da zagadi hrvatski jezik. Danas (i)jekavicom hrvatski jezik navodno zagađuju Bošnjaci muslimani koji su strpani u isti koš "primitivnih balkanoidnih (i)jekavaca" kao i pravoslavni Srbi https://hr.metapedia.org/wiki/Jekavs...slavni_jekavci

[Jovan Ovcar]

U ime Oca i Sina i Svatoga Duha amin!
Az rab Božiji Matej, a odmjelom Ninoslav, ban bas'nski veliki, kle se u knezu
Dubrov'čkomu Žan Dandolu i vsej općine Dubrov'čkoj.
Takvom s'm kletv'ju klel, kakom se ja banom Kulin klel:
Da hode Vlasi slobodno, ih dobit'k, tako kako su u bana Kulina hodili, bez vse habe i zledi. A ja kudje oblada, tudje si hodite prostrano i zdravo, a ja prijati kako-re sam sebje, i nauk dati od vse zledi.
A se pisah, imenom Desoje, gramatig bana Ninoslava, velijega bos'nskoga, tako vjerno kako-re u prvih.
A se ješte: ako vjeruje Srbljin Vlaha, da se pri knezom: ako vjeruje Vlah Srbljina, da se pri banom, a inomu Vlahu da se bude izma. Bože-re ti daj zdravije.

Bosanski vladari su sebe nazivali Srbima, kao što su Srbljem nazivali svoje stanovništvo.
Tvrtko Kotromanić se krunisao za kralja Srba, Bosne, Pomorja i Zapadnijh strana na grobu Stevog Save u manastiru Mileševa. Da bi istakao jednorodnost dinastije Nemanjića i Kotromanića, Tvrtko stavlja ispred svog krštenog imena ime Stefan, što znači "vjenčani" (onaj koji je krunisan). U svojim poveljana ime Stefan Tvrtko ističe veoma često, kao što u poveljama često ističe srpska zemlja ili Srblje kao jedinu etničku odrednicu. Tvrko jasno ističe porijeklo "roditelja moji gospode srpske."

@ Stearsolina
Povelja bana Mateja Ninoslava je pisana na (i)jekavici, a znamo svi da su Hrvati prihvatili srpsku (i)jekavicu u doba "ilirskog pokreta."
Ima i danas Hrvata koji preziru (i)jekavicu, jer je smatraju srpskim uvoznim proizvodom u Hrvatskoj koji je došao sa Srbima iz Istočne Hercegovine, Crne Gore i Raške.
Evo kakav prezir iskreni Hrvati pokazuju prema (i)jekavici na kojoj je pisana povelja bana Matej Ninoslava (oni smatraju ikavicu i ekavicu, a pogotovo ikavicu izvorno hrvatskom)
U zamalo svim inim hrvatskim etnoprostorima su su izvorni materinski jekavci među katoličkim Hrvatima tek beznačajne manjinme ili posve izostaju. tj prisilno nauče javnu jekavicu tek od škole u većim gradovima, dok u okolnim selima i dalje govore bar privatno i u obitelji uglavnom nejekavski sve do starosti. U tim inim nejekavskim prostorima Hrvatske su zamalo jedini pravi i izvorni jekavci pravoslavni "Vlasi" tj. prekodrinski Srbi-Prečani, uz manji udjel doseljenih islamskih Bošnjaka. Zbog čestog "dadakanja" uz obilne turcizma i balkanizme u rječniku, ovi srbojekavci uglavnom pripadaju u Balkanski Sprachbund. U zadnjih dvadesetak godina do početka 21. st. se u Hrvatskoj zbog odselidbe duplo smanjio broj pravoslavnih srbojekavaca, ali su njih nakon nedavnog rata dijelom opet zamijenili novodoseljeni jekavski Bošnjaci

Kao što vidiš autor izražava veliki prezir prema (i)jekavici, smastrajući je ne-hrvatskom "uveženom robom" koja je u Hrvatsku došla sa pravoslavnim Srbima da zagadi hrvatski jezik. Danas (i)jekavicom hrvatski jezik navodno zagađuju Bošnjaci muslimani koji su strpani u isti koš "primitivnih balkanoidnih (i)jekavaca" kao i pravoslavni Srbi https://hr.metapedia.org/wiki/Jekavs...slavni_jekavci

Kako nisu bola. U svakoj povelji sebe Srbima nazivaju hahaha. Koja deluzija. Zaista, trebas diskutovati u dobrom duhu ako mislis igdje stici. Ovo mi je presmijesno do sada.

[CommonSense]

I never said there was a Bosniak slavic tribe that came here. Re-read again if you need to.

Matej Ninoslavs charter causes no problem to anyone, with a war preparing between Serbia and Ragusa it was a natural move for Bosnia to define it's stance in the conflict. The telling part about it is that never in history are Ragusans called Vlachs, but we do know that Vlachs served Ragusans as caravan escorts and hinterland settlers.



Read the Croatian wiki page, the "charter" is actually an attachment meant to be an addition to a larger document regarding the upcoming Serbo-Ragusan war. I expected more honesty from people that debate me than this shit, hoping the opponent won't know basic history and will fall for this.

There was no war between the Kingdom of Serbia and the Dubrovnik Republic at that time. Vlachs were under the employ of all local states throughout the Middle Ages. In this case it referres to those in the employ of Dubrovnik, whereas Serbs are the subjects of the ban. The charter is not significant on its own, but coupled with the De Administrando Imperio, Chronicle of the Priest of Duklja, John Kinnamos' History and the Royal Frankish Annals it can't help but point to a conclusion very unpleasant to the Illyrian bogumil muslims of Bosnia.

[Jovan Ovcar]

There was no war between the Kingdom of Serbia and the Dubrovnik Republic at that time. Vlachs were under the employ of all local states throughout the Middle Ages. In this case it referres to those in the employ of Dubrovnik, whereas Serbs are the subjects of the ban. The charter is not significant on its own, but coupled with the De Administrando Imperio, Chronicle of the Priest of Duklja, John Kinnamos' History and the Royal Frankish Annals it can't help but point to a conclusion very unpleasant to the Illyrian bogumil muslims of Bosnia.

That is your interpretation. We never see Serbs clarified as inhabitants of Bosnia. In 300 years you'll claim Haggue was Serbian cause it mentioned dealing with Serb criminals

[Gold-Shekel]

Lol, the fact Serbs are trying to negate Bosniaks as a Nation only justifies us being a Nation, it makes more differences between us.

[Moje ime]

Lol, the fact Serbs are trying to negate Bosniaks as a Nation only justifies us being a Nation, it makes more differences between us.

You become nation during time. I don't negate you today but Bosniensis does that.

[Gold-Shekel]

You become nation during time. I don't negate you today but Bosniensis does that.

You make a good point, I don't think he knows what a Nation is.