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Thread: South English have much of Mediterranean ancestry that is neither Celtic nor Germanic

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stearsolina View Post
    Normans must have absorbed some of local Gallo-Romance ancestry when they invaded from France. But I doubt it is them, as they were elite who didn't leave much impact.
    It is probably something native to Isles (Basque like ?)
    It could well be something native to the Isles. The suggestion has been made before that pre-Roman Britain was split between quite different tribes, and the Silures were notably described as being [reasonably] dark-skinned and curly-haired like the Iberian peoples. In the sub-Roman period, new Kingdoms appear to have arisen quite quickly, suggesting a sense of 'belonging' to native tribes or culture had persisted over the centuries of Rome's rule. Perhaps it's the case that the rise in Mediterranean component is simply the result of the 'melding' of these different tribes over the last millennium-and-a-half, with modern Englishmen and Welshmen an amalgam of several very different Iron Age forebears.

    That being said, migrations from the continent in the post-Hastings age cannot be ruled out. The Normans were certainly not just Vikings who had annexed Northern France, and certainly the Gallo-Romans of what is now Normandy were a major contributor to the ancestry of the people who rowed across the Channel in 1066. Your comment about the Normans being 'an elite who didn't leave much impact' is a common trope but I have doubts as to its accuracy.

    First of all, the first wave numbered many thousands, amongst whom were not just Normans but others from throughout what is now France. Post-conquest, they weren't all rewarded with manorial landholdings and lordships. Normans occupied all levels of society, at least by the third or fourth generation after the conquest, and intermarriage between Englishmen and Normans is attested in chronicles of that period. It's not hard to imagine how this came to be; primogeniture can only benefit so many of a person's descendants, and so the occasional son or daughter of even the wealthier elite would have found themselves out of favour and drifting into the general population. That's before we even account for the later settlers, merchants and whatnot who would have come from France long after the initial conquest. We should also remember the Angevins' possessions, which stretched as far south as the Basque Country and with which England was in political union for many years (no doubt allowing for increased and easier trade between the regions).

    I personally think this is a better explanation for the influence of Old French/Anglo-Norman on Middle English, rather than simply having a 'French' elite in England.

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    bump

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endovélico View Post
    I know most of your posts are made up stuff, but i'm curious what are haplogroups 9 and 21? And which haplogroup is it that southern portuguese have at 17%? You can have a look at this thread and compare:

    https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...-DNA-variation
    They are not made up! They are very credible posts from studies. What is made up is you!!!!!

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    Interesting.

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    OP david reich recently noted upon the same thing which is interesting, you are very smart to catch it first!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-43712587

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellbeaking View Post
    OP david reich recently noted upon the same thing which is interesting, you are very smart to catch it first!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-43712587
    I guess David Reich was reading my posts here and/or on Anthrogenica.

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    reich thinks it might be celts. I assume at the time this thread was made, it was believed that celtic languages where the first PIE wave into Britain

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