South English have much of Mediterranean ancestry that is neither Celtic nor Germanic

[Peterski]

Study linked below says that both Pre-Roman Celts and Early Anglo-Saxon immigrants had less of Southern European ancestry than modern English, which means that modern English are not just a Celtic-Germanic mix but that some other admixture is pulling them genetically towards the South:

http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/e...55855.full.pdf

Excerpt:

We analyzed a variety of samples from Celtic (Scotland and Wales) and Anglo-Saxon (southern and eastern England) populations from modern Britain in conjunction with the PoBI samples and ancient Saxon samples from eastern England24 in order to assess the relative amounts of Steppe ancestry. We computed statistics27 of the form, where Steppe and Neolithic Farmer populations are from ref. 21,22 , Pop1 is either a modern Celtic or ancient Saxon population and Pop2 is a modern Anglo-Saxon population (Table 2, Supplementary Table 2). This statistic is sensitive to Steppe ancestry with positive values indicating more Steppe ancestry in Pop1 than Pop2. We consistently obtained significantly positive statistics, implying that both the modern Celtic samples and the ancient Saxon samples have more Steppe ancestry than the modern Anglo-Saxon [they mean: English] samples from southern and eastern England. This indicates that southern and eastern England is not exclusively a genetic mix of Celts and Saxons. There are a variety of possible explanations, but one is that the present genetic structure of Britain, while subtle, is quite old, and that southern England in Roman times already had less Steppe ancestry than Wales and Scotland.

In other words, both Iron Age Celts and Anglo-Saxon immigrants were more Northern genetically than are modern English.

This is also obvious if you compare them in any of Gedmatch calculators, for example Eurogenes K15:

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2014/1...s-roundup.html

1) Hinxton Iron Age Celtic Briton - 38% North Sea / 30% Atlantic / 6.5% Mediterranean

2) Hinxton Early Anglo-Saxon - 41.5% North Sea / 28.5% Atlantic / 6.5% Mediterranean

3) Modern Englishman from Kent - 35.5% North Sea / 30% Atlantic / 11.5% Mediterranean

Modern Englishman scores almost two times more of Mediterranean than both Pre-Roman Celt and Anglo-Saxon immigrant.

Also North Sea admixture is lower in modern English from southern England than in both Celts and original Anglo-Saxons.

======================

This Southern admixture must be either from Roman times or from Post-Anglo-Saxon (e.g. Norman and later) times.

[Ibericus]

That's not a huge difference. But it's mostly just neolithic farmer rising a little bit.

[Peterski]

Neolithic farmers no longer existed in Late Antiquity and Medieval times.

Unless you are claiming that Sardinians migrated to Medieval England?

Sardinians are genetically the closest modern group to Neolithic farmers.

============================

Note that Hinxton Celt was a Pre-Roman sample, and Hinxton Anglo-Saxon was a fresh immigrant. We need Romano-Briton samples, from most Romanized areas of Britain, to see how much Southern European genetically they were during the early 400s AD.

[Anglojew]

From which populations? Normans? Romans?

[Jackson]

Probably a combination of something from the Roman period (there's good evidence that Roman urban centres were fairly 'diverse', at least compared to the countryside, and some of these came from the Mediterranean), also we have had a steady trickle from the continent over the centuries. Makes sense really, i doubt it is purely down to the Romans but it would be interesting to see DNA results from a broader range of individuals in the immediate post-Roman period (an ordinary cemetery population preferably). Not surprising really, especially as the south/south-east is pretty much the core area of the country politically and economically, and also the closest to the continent.

[Septentrion]

Study linked below says that both Pre-Roman Celts and Early Anglo-Saxon immigrants had less of Southern European ancestry than modern English, which means that modern English are not just a Celtic-Germanic mix but that some other admixture is pulling them genetically towards the South:

http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/e...55855.full.pdf

Excerpt:



In other words, both Iron Age Celts and Anglo-Saxon immigrants were more Northern genetically than are modern English.

This is also obvious if you compare them in any of Gedmatch calculators, for example Eurogenes K15:

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2014/1...s-roundup.html

1) Hinxton Iron Age Celtic Briton - 38% North Sea / 30% Atlantic / 6.5% Mediterranean

2) Hinxton Early Anglo-Saxon - 41.5% North Sea / 28.5% Atlantic / 6.5% Mediterranean

3) Modern Englishman from Kent - 35.5% North Sea / 30% Atlantic / 11.5% Mediterranean

Modern Englishman scores almost two times more of Mediterranean than both Pre-Roman Celt and Anglo-Saxon immigrant.

Also North Sea admixture is lower in modern English from southern England than in both Celts and original Anglo-Saxons.

======================

This Southern admixture must be either from Roman times or from Post-Anglo-Saxon (e.g. Norman and later) times.

Rubbish! Southern English such as the Cornish people are among the "purest" European groups there is, out there. By looking at a series of skeletons doesn't entirely speak for itself. If we look at the frequency of Y-chromosome haplogroups 9 and 21 which are common in the Near East compare to their frequencies in the ethnic British populations, we see that immediately.

Haplogroup 9 frequency:
Bedouin = 66%
Palestinian Arabs = 55%
Ashkenaz = 43%
Algerian = 41%
Greek = 28%
Italian = 20%
Dutch = 7%
German = 3%
Norwegian = 2%
East English = 1%
Irish = 1%
West Scottish = 0%
Scottish = 0%
Cornish = 0%

Haplogroup 21 frequency:
Northern African = 77%
Algerian = 52%
Greek = 28%
Ashkenaz = 23%
Sardinian = 20%
Southern Portuguese = 17%
Italian = 13%
Dutch = 8%
East English = 3%
Norwegian = 2%
Irish = 2%
Western Scottish = 2%
Scottish = 0%
Cornish = 0%

[Token]

Probably Normans.

[Loki]

I wouldn't use the word "much".

[Pigling]

Most successful Germanic populations have highest frequency of non-Germanic component.

English = Celtid & Mediterranean

German = Slavic, Celtic & Mediterranean

[Loki]

Most successful Germanic populations have highest frequency of non-Germanic component.

English = Celtid & Mediterranean

German = Slavic, Celtic & Mediterranean

Are you drunk?