Is it more accurate to presume that Fyromians are Slavicizied Daco-Thracians?

**poiuytrewq0987** · 10-06-2016, 05:58 PM

The genetic link is there. The Macedonians are closest to Bulgarians, then the Romanians, and after them usually is a tossup between Albanians and Serbs. We are quite distant from core Mediterranean populations like the Italians, Albanians or even southern Greek populations. The same plots, however, ALWAYS show all three peoples together almost as if we descended from a core population but adopted different cultures and languages later on.

The Greeks have ancient Macedonian descent because they continue their culture and language. We don't. The addition of Pontic Greeks to the argument is irrelevant as there were Greek majority populations already living in historical Macedonia before the arrival of the first refugee. The Pontics also likely descend from an older colonial Greek population.

Furthermore, Macedonia was depopulated of Slavic speakers after the reconquest from the invasions until the Ottoman years. The Slavs only began to grow again in the 18th century and likely moved into Macedonia.

**Dianatomia** · 10-07-2016, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by Aemilius

The genetic link is there. The Macedonians are closest to Bulgarians, then the Romanians, and after them usually is a tossup between Albanians and Serbs. We are quite distant from core Mediterranean populations like the Italians, Albanians or even southern Greek populations. The same plots, however, ALWAYS show all three peoples together almost as if we descended from a core population but adopted different cultures and languages later on.

The Greeks have ancient Macedonian descent because they continue their culture and language. We don't. The addition of Pontic Greeks to the argument is irrelevant as there were Greek majority populations already living in historical Macedonia before the arrival of the first refugee. The Pontics also likely descend from an older colonial Greek population.

Furthermore, Macedonia was depopulated of Slavic speakers after the reconquest from the invasions until the Ottoman years. The Slavs only began to grow again in the 18th century and likely moved into Macedonia.

They are not exactly Slavicized Daco-Thracians. They are essentially Daco-Thracians who also absorbed a great deal of Slavs. Most Macedonian Slavs cluster with Bulgarians and Romanians, while some also with Serbs. The Slavic element can not be ignored.

Also, not that it matters, but the Pontians are always brought up when it comes to this issue. Just a clarification. Not only Pontic Greeks settled in Macedonia, but also mostly other Greek refugees from Ionia and Thrace. Pontians are a minority in Greek Macedonia. They are not even a plurality among the refugees. In the 1920s, out of the almost 1,5 million refugees which came to Greece, some 240.000 were from the Black Sea region (Pontians).

**poiuytrewq0987** · 10-07-2016, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by Dianatomia

They are not exactly Slavicized Daco-Thracians. They are essentially Daco-Thracians who also absorbed a great deal of Slavs. Most Macedonian Slavs cluster with Bulgarians and Romanians, while some also with Serbs. The Slavic element can not be ignored.

It's not accurate to say that we absorbed Slavs because that is to suggest we still speak a Thracian language. We don't. We are a Slavicized people (save for the Romanians, obviously) as we speak Slavic, but the Daco-Thracian genetic distinctiveness continues to be present. In the bottom part of the PCA plot below, you can see that we are virtually the same to the point we are even given the name Romanian-Bulgarian.

Also, not that it matters, but the Pontians are always brought up when it comes to this issue. Just a clarification. Not only Pontic Greeks settled in Macedonia, but also mostly other Greek refugees from Ionia and Thrace. Pontians are a minority in Greek Macedonia. They are not even a plurality among the refugees. In the 1920s, out of the almost 1,5 million refugees which came to Greece, some 240.000 were from the Black Sea region (Pontians).

Yeah, of course, I only enjoy destroying one of the stupid arguments used by Macedonians before it can be used again ad naseum.

**poiuytrewq0987** · 10-13-2016, 05:07 PM

Despite the ridiculous separation of Macedonians from the Eastern Balkan populations, we can see that the autosomal results of Macedonians with Bulgarians and Romanians are virtually identical. Only Romanians have an additional tinge of Asian.

**Wrong** · 10-19-2016, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by Aemilius

The genetic link is there. The Macedonians are closest to Bulgarians, then the Romanians, and after them usually is a tossup between Albanians and Serbs. We are quite distant from core Mediterranean populations like the Italians, Albanians or even southern Greek populations. The same plots, however, ALWAYS show all three peoples together almost as if we descended from a core population but adopted different cultures and languages later on.

The Greeks have ancient Macedonian descent because they continue their culture and language. We don't. The addition of Pontic Greeks to the argument is irrelevant as there were Greek majority populations already living in historical Macedonia before the arrival of the first refugee. The Pontics also likely descend from an older colonial Greek population.

Furthermore, Macedonia was depopulated of Slavic speakers after the reconquest from the invasions until the Ottoman years. The Slavs only began to grow again in the 18th century and likely moved into Macedonia.

Depends. I have seen fyromians plot all over the place, a good number right next to Albanians.

**poiuytrewq0987** · 10-20-2016, 12:58 AM

Originally Posted by Kurgan

Depends. I have seen fyromians plot all over the place, a good number right next to Albanians.

Sure, there are outliers just like every other ethnic group. We primarily cluster with Bulgarians and Romanians, however. My mom who is from Pelagonia is at an insignificant distance from my father and he's from northeast Macedonia. And, we're always grouped with other Bulgarians and Romanians. Which is because we're Slavicized Daco-Thracian on one side and Romanized Daco-Thracians on the other. One can reckon that some Daco-Thracians have a bit more Albanian influence or Greek, etc. In short, Macedonians are not Greek/ancient Fyromian or Illyrian but Daco-Thracian.

**Crn Volk** · 10-20-2016, 01:27 AM

Macedonians plot close to Montenegrins also. Are they Daco-Thracians too?

What about todays ''Slavophone Greeks'', Thracians too?

**Crn Volk** · 10-20-2016, 05:27 AM

Originally Posted by Aemilius

Despite the ridiculous separation of Macedonians from the Eastern Balkan populations, we can see that the autosomal results of Macedonians with Bulgarians and Romanians are virtually identical. Only Romanians have an additional tinge of Asian.

Don't know what you're looking at, but here's the full image;

**Crn Volk** · 10-20-2016, 05:44 AM

Macedonians plot closest to other West Balkan groups, with some plotting close to Greeks.
There is a bigger variation amongst Bulgarians, with some plotting further East, approaching Turkish and Caucasian groups

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9o...dzSUl0RDQ/edit

**poiuytrewq0987** · 10-20-2016, 09:39 PM

Originally Posted by Sokol

Macedonians plot close to Montenegrins also. Are they Daco-Thracians too?

What about todays ''Slavophone Greeks'', Thracians too?

Montenegrins are more southern shifted than Serbs, and many South Serbs are Serbianized Bulgarians as a result of losing Bulgarian Morava to them. So, I don't care if some Serbs cluster in our group. Only you do, though given your obsessive Fyromian agenda.