The real map of Europe :D

[Aëlwenn]

if yo go with genetic, then for example we could claim that Spanish are only Celtic people because our biggest haplogroup is r1b... but that would not make many sense, true?

I TALKING ABOUT GENETIC AND PHENOTYPE.
BUT YOUR MY CELTIC BRO

[Tietar]

Northern French are nothing med.
We are farm away from med.
Look some DNA test and look a map.

France is a mixture of all the ethnicities of europe, and within a few years of the whole planet

[Aëlwenn]

France is a mixture of all the ethnicities of europe, and within a few years of the whole planet

We are not a mixture, this is a stupid leftist propaganda.
If you trust that ur not better than Melki.

[Neon Knight]

If the old idea of the English being a 'Anglo-Saxon/Keltic hybrid' were true, modern English would score somewhere between Swedes and N. Dutch/N. Germans. They average more South of that for sure. More like Belgians/Northern French. There must have been more Med. influence from somewhere. There are many suspects for this.

Would you believe that, even before it was thought they were Anglo/Kelt hybrids, they were thought to be pure Anglo descendants? Haha.

The latter is the old idea, the AngloSaxon-Celtic belief is relatively new.

What do you mean by 'extra Med influence' in the English? Which Med population? They could be divided into six different genetic groups. There have been no major genetic inputs into England since the AngloSaxons. The only thing like a 'Med' element in the British is a small Iberian one and it is probably one of the oldest elements.

[Peterski]

What do you mean by 'extra Med influence' in the English? Which Med population? They could be divided into six different genetic groups. There have been no major genetic inputs into England since the AngloSaxons.

I explained here and quoted sources, including a peer-reviewed publication and GEDmatch results:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...=1#post4040401

Modern English people are more genetically Mediterranean and less genetically Northern European than either Iron Age (pre-Roman) Britons, or Anglo-Saxon immigrants. That said, I have not checked Romano-Briton (Roman-era) genomes. Romano-Britons could be more Mediterranean than modern English.

Bare in mind that I am talking about unmixed Anglo-Saxon immigrants being less Med than modern English.

After mixing with Romano-Britons they could acquire more of Med admixture.

There have been no major genetic inputs into England since the AngloSaxons.

No major ones, but there was a whole series of minor inputs from the continent.

Each of those inputs could shift English people slightly southwards.

For example Norman immigrants - contrary to some beliefs that they were 100% Scandinavian - were mixed with local population in France, and could some additional Mediterreanean admixture.

There were also post-Norman immigrations from the continent.

[Peterski]

By the way, another indication that modern English people (at least South-Eastern ones) are southern-shifted compared to ancient populations, is the fact that Iron Age Celtic Briton from Hinxton is most genetically similar (according to Eurogenes K36) to modern people living near Darlington and Middlesbrough.

Hinxton is in South-Eastern England, while Darlington is in North-Eastern England.

I used this tool to see what is his "genetically predicted location" of Hinxton Celts:

http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/Europe.htm

The results - if he lived today, he would be most similar to populations living in:

Genetically predicted Latitude: 54.54749626200001
Genetically predicted Longitude: -1.3658863080000039

Which is this place: https://www.google.pl/maps/place/54°...3!4d-1.3658863

So someone who lived in Southern England in the Iron Age, is most similar to modern people living in Northern England. One reason for this is that Northern England has more of Celtic ancestry than South-Eastern England (which is pulling that Celt towards the north), but another reason is also that Southern England has more of Mediterranean ancestry (which is as well pulling that ancient Celt towards the north, because he had almost two times less of "Mediterranean" admixture than modern Southern English people from Kent).

====================

Another Iron Age Celt from Hinxton - "Hinxton 1" - was predicted as living in:

Genetically predicted Latitude: 52.643113694
Genetically predicted Longitude: -2.7662528660000127

This is near Shrewsbury: https://www.google.pl/maps/place/52°...7!4d-2.7662529

Which is in Western England, close to the border of Wales and to Offa's Dyke.

This also makes sense, because today Western England has more of Celtic ancestry than areas around Hinxton. So people who lived near Hinxton in the Iron Age were similar to modern people living in Western and Northern England, where there is more of Celtic, less of Anglo-Saxon, and less of Mediterranean ancestry. This makes sense because Roman ancestry & Anglo-Saxon ancestry both peak in South-East England.

[Mens-Sarda]

Thanks Good to know, I really wasn't sure what to do with the Corsicans, but this makes sense. Is it possible they could have some Sardinian influence with regards to how close they are?

I found an interesting article about Corsican genetics, and the result shows that Corsicans and Sardinians are closely linked

"The results show a remarkable heterogeneity within the two islands. However, the presence of rare haplotypes common to the most conservative areas (Nuoro and Corte) of the two islands is particularly interesting. These data support the hypothesis of a common origin of the populations of Sardinia and Corsica during the middle and upper Paleolithic periods and could be interpreted as a founder effect."


full article

http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/corsicans.html

[Neon Knight]

I explained here and quoted sources, including a peer-reviewed publication and GEDmatch results:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...=1#post4040401

Modern English people are more genetically Mediterranean and less genetically Northern European than either Iron Age (pre-Roman) Britons, or Anglo-Saxon immigrants. That said, I have not checked Romano-Briton (Roman-era) genomes. Romano-Britons could be more Mediterranean than modern English.

Bare in mind that I am talking about unmixed Anglo-Saxon immigrants being less Med than modern English.

After mixing with Romano-Britons they could acquire more of Med admixture.



No major ones, but there was a whole series of minor inputs from the continent.

Each of those inputs could shift English people slightly southwards.

For example Norman immigrants - contrary to some beliefs that they were 100% Scandinavian - were mixed with local population in France, and could some additional Mediterreanean admixture.

There were also post-Norman immigrations from the continent.

From the study:

"This indicates that southern and eastern England is not exclusively a genetic mix of Celts and Saxons. There area variety of possible explanations, but one is that the present genetic structure of Britain, while subtle, is quite old, and that southern England in Roman times already had less Steppe ancestry than Wales and Scotland."

In other words, the English may still be essentially a mix between Celts and AngloSaxons, with a bit of Norman. The People of the British Isles study already showed that the southern English have more DNA matching north-eastern France while northern English, Welsh and Scots have more correlating with Brittany:

http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/u...psn5lcesor.jpg

They found no matches with Italy. No way did all that dark blue DNA come after 1066 so it must be mostly pre-Roman. It looks to me like there was a migration from Eastern (possibly Balkans) Europe which reached the Channel area then split into two with some crossing to Britain and the others settling in northern France.

[Jehan]

I found an interesting article about Corsican genetics, and the result shows that Corsicans and Sardinians are closely linked

"The results show a remarkable heterogeneity within the two islands. However, the presence of rare haplotypes common to the most conservative areas (Nuoro and Corte) of the two islands is particularly interesting. These data support the hypothesis of a common origin of the populations of Sardinia and Corsica during the middle and upper Paleolithic periods and could be interpreted as a founder effect."


full article

If I remember good, Corsican language is also very close to one sardinian dialect. People can communicate without any missunderstanding.

[Mens-Sarda]

If I remember good, Corsican language is also very close to one sardinian dialect. People can communicate without any missunderstanding.

you are referring to Gallurese that is not exactly a Sardinian dialect but a Corsican dialect brought to Sardinia by Corsicans who migrated after XVth century


however even if Sardinian and Corsican are different, they have a nearly identical vocabulary due to the fact that both languages derive from the same vulgar Latin spoken on both islands; around Xth century Corsican started to become different from Sardinian because of the Pisan colonization that transformed Corsican in an Italic language, while Sardinian continued to evolve alone for other 3 centuries