Albanians, indigenous in kosovo?

[Ushtari]

Noel Malcom. For a scholar who is neither versed in Slav studies nor a balkanologist, and who, judging by his scholarly credentials, until recently never had anything whatsoever to do with the history of the Balkans, it strikes one as unconvincing, even in sheer physical terms, that he could have managed to digest and synthesize, within 2-3 years, such a huge quantity of archives and archival holdings in so many languages, consulted such a massive literature in eleven European languages. A quite heterogeneous literature at that.

He refers to almost all works by Mary Edith Durham, but he ignores her first serious work, Through the Lands of the Serb, in which she touches on Kosovo-Metohija. Everything leads to the conclusion that by referring to such a mass of sources and literature in general, Noel Malcolm in fact wanted to conceal his real motifs while doing his best to conceal his mission as an advocate of the separatist movement of the Albanian minority in Serbia by an aura of alleged scholarship and thoroughness.

Well i understand how you Serbs must feel now when Facts are presented. No matter what, Noel Malcolm is 1000 times more reliable then any of your sources(wich btw are not from any serious historian nor linguist, but taken from other forums) who state we have our origin outside the balkans.

The fact that Albanian language have cognates with proto-romanian testifies of a close relation for a long period of time, ie Albanians have lived in a much larger area then today. Also, the huge influence of "innerland" Latin testifies that we have lived in the central regions also.

Or do you also condemn http://pbosnia.kentlaw.edu/resources...ia/albhist.htm for beeing a bad source? just accept the fact that you are intruders to kosovo, while we are indigenous.

The fact is, that there is no evidence of Serb existence in Kosovo before Stefan Nemanka starts to conquer towns in Kosovo.

[Guapo]

I don't care who was there first. Reality is that the region has become backwards, primitive and crime infested like east L.A. where no ethnicity wants to live there anymore which is why people leave for the diaspora.

[Ushtari]

I don't care who was there first. Reality is that the region has become backwards, primitive and crime infested like east L.A. where no ethnicity wants to live there anymore which is why people leave for the diaspora.

Yeah, cuz Serbia is a nordish welfare paradise, spare me your bullshit will ya?

[Osweo]

Well i understand how you Serbs must feel now when Facts are presented.

Outsiders reading this can see you're little more than a petty triumphalist.

No matter what, Noel Malcolm is 1000 times more reliable then any of your sources

Childish...

(wich btw are not from any serious historian nor linguist, but taken from other forums) who state we have our origin outside the balkans.

As far as I recall, NO Serb on this forum has repeated any of that nonsense linking you Shiptars with Caucasian Albania. I've seen discussion among Jugoslavs here on the deep ancestry of Montenegrin clans, for instance, where Albanian and Vlach influences have been discussed with complete openness and level-headedness.

The fact that Albanian language have cognates with proto-romanian testifies of a close relation for a long period of time, ie Albanians have lived in a much larger area then today.

Who here refutes that? Nobody. Stop trying to stir up bother where there is none.

Also, the huge influence of "innerland" Latin testifies that we have lived in the central regions also.

Curious...
How can Romance substrate in Albanian be so easily distinguished as 'inland' or 'coastal'? We have no examples of the Vulgar Latin that was once spoken around Sirmium, Singidunum or Naissus.

Or do you also condemn http://pbosnia.kentlaw.edu/resources...ia/albhist.htm for beeing a bad source? just accept the fact that you are intruders to kosovo, while we are indigenous.

More than a thousand years is QUITE enough time for an intruder to become a settled native with deep roots in a landscape. You lose all credibility talking such bullshit.

The fact is, that there is no evidence of Serb existence in Kosovo before Stefan Nemanka starts to conquer towns in Kosovo.

So what? The Twelfth Century? That was fucking ages ago. There are parts of England that have been English for not much longer than that.

[Guapo]

Yeah, cuz Serbia is a nordish welfare paradise, spare me your bullshit will ya?

How's the weather in Switzerland?

[Ushtari]

As far as I recall, NO Serb on this forum has repeated any of that nonsense linking you Shiptars with Caucasian Albania. I've seen discussion among Jugoslavs here on the deep ancestry of Montenegrin clans, for instance, where Albanian and Vlach influences have been discussed with complete openness and level-headedness.

The reason a opened this thread is because a serb(Voinstvennyi) stated we(albanians) where occupying kosovo, when its proven that we are the indigenous inhabitants.

Curious...
How can Romance substrate in Albanian be so easily distinguished as 'inland' or 'coastal'? We have no examples of the Vulgar Latin that was once spoken around Sirmium, Singidunum or Naissus.

"The Latin influence over Albanian is of Eastern Romance origin, rather than of Dalmatian origin. This influence includes Latin words exhibiting idiomatic expressions and changes in meaning found only in Eastern Romance and not in other Romance languages.Adding to this the many words found in Romanian with Albanian cognates (see Eastern Romance substratum), it may be assumed that Romanians and Albanians lived in close proximity at one time"

Appearently we have.

The latin wich has big influence in the Albanian language, is the same as in Romanian. This latin does not exist in Dalmatian, therefor is was a complete different dialect in the coast.

More than a thousand years is QUITE enough time for an intruder to become a settled native with deep roots in a landscape. You lose all credibility talking such bullshit.

So what? The Twelfth Century? That was fucking ages ago. There are parts of England that have been English for not much longer than that.

So your point here is what exactly? yes kosovo belongs to who ever lives there, no doubt about that, but thats not really the point of this thread. Or do you mean that kosovo belongs to serbs only?

We all know why kosovo became independent, and thats not because of a historical reason, but due to serb behavior towards Albanians.

[Guapo]

We all know why kosovo became independent, and thats not because of a historical reason, but due to serb behavior towards Albanians.

The KLA attacked/ambushed Serb police on a constant basis, that's how it started.

[Osweo]

The reason a opened this thread is because a serb(Voinstvennyi) stated we(albanians) where occupying kosovo, when its proven that we are the indigenous inhabitants.

Serbs have been 'indigenous' there for more than a millennium too. I don't see you speaking out against the crimes commited against them.

"The Latin influence over Albanian is of Eastern Romance origin, rather than of Dalmatian origin. This influence includes Latin words exhibiting idiomatic expressions and changes in meaning found only in Eastern Romance and not in other Romance languages.Adding to this the many words found in Romanian with Albanian cognates (see Eastern Romance substratum), it may be assumed that Romanians and Albanians lived in close proximity at one time"

Appearently we have.

The latin wich has big influence in the Albanian language, is the same as in Romanian. This latin does not exist in Dalmatian, therefor is was a complete different dialect in the coast.

Okay now... Where was the border between Dalmatian Romance and the Eastern varieties? Probably around Montenegro, no?

I looked at some old linguistic maps, and saw that there were largish Vlach communities in what is now central western Albania. Were these Dalmatian speakers? I think not.

Ah, here we are;
Aromanian 10,000 in Albania (Salminen 1993). Ethnic population: Up to 400,000 in Albania. South, especially in Korçë, Lushnjë, Pernët, Gjirokastër, Sarandë, Berat, Durrës, Kavajë, and Tiranë. Alternate names: Armina, Aromunian, Arumanian, Arumun, Macedo Romanian, Macedo-Rumanian, Vlach. Classification: Indo-European, Italic, Romance, Eastern
http://www.ethnologue.com/show_country.asp?name=albania
As you can see, it's unsurprising that Albanian should have elements of Eastern Balkan Romance in it, as Albanians still live among these Vlachs. This fact isn't particularly relevant to the Kosovo matter.

I do actually believe that Albanians have lived in Kosovo since Roman times, I never denied this. I just wish more respect was given to Serbians' long history in the province too.

So your point here is what exactly? yes kosovo belongs to who ever lives there, no doubt about that, but thats not really the point of this thread. Or do you mean that kosovo belongs to serbs only?

Don't you even have an Albanian name for the place?
Kosovo belongs to its traditional residents, the most significant of whom have been the Serbs for the last few centuries. I would have liked for the Albanians living there to have reached a more amicable arrangement with the Serb state, but when I see mosque after mosque popping up on European soil, I kind of lose any sympathy whatsoever.

We all know why kosovo became independent, and thats not because of a historical reason, but due to serb behavior towards Albanians.

Only an idiot reading this would believe that only ONE side has crimes on its hands. Unfortunately, our world is run by swine who rely on the prevalence of idiots...

[The Lawspeaker]

Can someone move this Kosovo-related thread to the Serb section please ?
Kosovo Je Srbija.

[Bari]

I do actually believe that Albanians have lived in Kosovo since Roman times, I never denied this. I just wish more respect was given to Serbians' long history in the province too.

- Thats what i was getting at. As there seemed to be misconception among some of when Albanian arrived in Kosovo. My point was and is, Albanians have lived there a long time. Which means that regardless of who has been controlling the area politically in time of history, are just as entitled as Serbs to live there. Many towns have Serbian names yes. They controlled the land for quite a while and such influence is natural then. Both sides have long history there, and i don't seriously think either side can claim entire Kosovo on their own. Just what i wanted to point out in this discussion.